Quote from: Werekoala;796028Ok, so all GG supporters are now fat, white, male, mouth-breathing, basement-dwelling, anti-Semitic, racist, misogynistic, death-threat doxxing, wanna-be eye (and other)  rapists.

Looks like almost all the bases are covered. Plenty of room for discussion there, then.

"Now?"

Edit: Dammit, Warboss Squee beat me to it.

I'm not with him!
But you'd better do what he says.

Guess what? I found a handful of Republicans who are racists! Obviously that means every Republican is a racist bigot! Because I'm ironically unaware of the meaning of the word prejudice.

Quote from: Will;796056I'm not with him!
But you'd better do what he says.

Cute, but lacks all nuance and context.  You could easily make the very same comparison between feminists and radical feminists, and it'd be bullshit then, too.

Quote from: Iosue;796065Cute, but lacks all nuance and context.  You could easily make the very same comparison between feminists and radical feminists, and it'd be bullshit then, too.

Yeah and don't forget Islam and Terrorism too.

Not sure why Will keeps referencing that comic, it really doesn't apply to this (or any other) debate, unless you want to imply that anyone distancing themselves from the most radical members of a group to which they happen to belong actually support their goals.

In short, any group that has radical members consists of nothing BUT radical members, regardless of their protestations.

Maybe he could enlighten us.

Quote from: Werekoala;796069Maybe he could enlighten us.

Given that I've tried politely responding to him twice with posts of some length arguing for a more nuanced discussion, and they've been ignored, I'm not holding out hope.

GG is a movement that started with slander and personal attacks, has continued to be fueled by internet rage and slander and personal attacks, and is constantly spinning lies.

It's a movement that's attracted neo-Nazis, antisemitic cartoons, attacks on ANY woman who dares even mildly disagree with it.

People are volunteering to fly that flag _because_ it's contentious and has visibility.

All the folks wringing their hands about 'a few bad apples' and 'they don't represent us' aren't doing something ELSE precisely because those 'few bad apples' and nonrepresentatives are creating such drama and energy.

If anyone truly believes that small-time indie gaming journalism needs to be revamped, start a club or something and do it honestly. Do it with some group you can kick assholes out of, where you have a representative who DOES speak for you.

Until that point? You are CHOOSING to stand with horrible people. And from a distance spectators will not be able to tell the difference.

Can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

And as for the tired refrain of 'Oh, but Islam...'

Islam is a 1400 year old religion that's spanned continents, been radically transformed a bunch of times. There are entire civilizations that have come and gone since it started.

When two people say they follow Islam, you could be talking about a vast gulf of history between them. More than that, they have leaders, hierarchies, systems, canon, all which distinguishes THEIR sort of Islam from some OTHER sort of Islam.


I should be more surprised that I have to point out the differences between that and a fucking 3 month old slacktivist hashtag meme that has folks in a tizzy.

Wow. Ok, I hereby nominate Will to be the next Secretary of State, because that way of looking at groups of people will certainly clear up all kinds of international problems in short order.

Also, he's really good at absolutes as long as they support his views - perfect compliment to our current foreign policy.

Quote from: Iosue;796071Given that I've tried politely responding to him twice with posts of some length arguing for a more nuanced discussion, and they've been ignored, I'm not holding out hope.

You will have to forgive me if my ROI on energy on this specific thread when I'm this outnumbered means I may skip responses sometimes (or miss posts).

Particularly when we have folks like Werekoala at the ready to make incisive productive responses.

Quote from: Will;796075Particularly when we have folks like Werekoala at the ready to make incisive productive responses.

Well okay - so your point that Islam can't be compared to GG is that Islam has had 1400 years to evolve? If you know anything about Islam, you'd know it didn't exactly start out being about warm fuzzy bunnies and rainbows, but clearly it has evolved to the point that we can now call it the Religion of Peace without spitting ALL of our Coke across our keyboards?

Hm.

Maybe in 1400 years, GG will be an acceptable movement where it's ok to have a few nutcases involved, and everyone else can say "Hey, I'm not with HIM" - and not have people like you chime in with "But better give him your money"?

I call myself Christian. What can you assume?

I call myself a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. What can you assume?

Quote from: Werekoala;796076Maybe in 1400 years, GG will be an acceptable movement where it's ok to have a few nutcases involved, and everyone else can say "Hey, I'm not with HIM" - and not have people like you chime in with "But better give him your money"?

Ask me then!

Heh. But, if you came from a country settled by GGers centuries ago, with a rule of journalistic ethics law and disputes between feminist camps ironed out according to the 5th century Council of Gaming, then sure, maybe.

Quote from: Will;796072All the folks wringing their hands about 'a few bad apples' and 'they don't represent us' aren't doing something ELSE precisely because those 'few bad apples' and nonrepresentatives are creating such drama and energy.

https://pixietalksgamergate.wordpress.com/gamergates-achievements-thus-far/

Sorry, what was that you were lying?

'aren't doing something else' in the sense of 'aren't in some other movement.'

Again, if there are so many uninformed people reacting to GG with dismay because of bad apples, why not form some other group and, you know, not call yourself a GamerGater?

If I started a religious hashtag movement named Mislam and a bunch of folks declaring themselves Mislish went out and said 'yeah! black people suck!' and this kept happening, I'd be inclined to go 'welp, this was only a few months old, let's rebrand and have a tighter control over things.'

Quote from: Will;796077I call myself Christian. What can you assume?

I call myself a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. What can you assume?

By using the same logic you're using regarding GamerGate, since Christians aren't "taking care" of the hateful message being spread by the WBC, all Christians are therefore part and parcel part of the Hate movement advocated by the extremist WBC.

Why are you an anti-Semite homophobe Will?
Why would you consider yourself part of the hate movement, #Christianity?

EDIT:
Need to add the emoticon, so people realize I'm not serious with the last bit.
Kind of sucks I have to say that, and it's not just given though, isn't it?