Quote from: BenTheFerg;794837Moreover, also fascinating, it that you think mainstream/ what goes for 'normal' benefits all parties.  

I'm not sure how you could genuinely take that from anything I've written. My personal viewpoint is close to Benthamite Utilitarianism - Greatest Good of the Greatest Number, with 'Good' being 'human flourishing' or similar. I used to see things more in classical-Liberal individualist terms, but I have come round to thinking that social conservatives have a point that human flourishing is best accomplished in a well ordered society; something close to what Margaret Thatcher called 'ordered liberty'. Not tyranny of the majority, but not tyranny of the minority either. Minorities should be tolerated as far as possible but should not impose on the majority where that would lower net sum total wellbeing.

Welcome BenTheFerg.

Please feel free to use the roleplaying section of the board.

Quote from: S'mon;794855You may have slightly misread my post. I think Joss Whedon is a "nice left-liberal", not a cultural Marxist or cultural Marxist sock puppet. FWIW I enjoy Joss Whedon's work as much as the next nerd. I particularly enjoyed some of his dialogue in the Avengers movie recently, although the female character didn't get much of it; Iron Man & Captain America got the best lines.

BTW you do a good job 'Framing the Debate', kudos.

Glad to hear it!  It did read that way  - but glad - despite us being polls apart on what constitutes anything going for 'reality' in the media - glad at least we can agree that Whedon's work is enjoyable and of value.  & agreed on the Avengers!  

Quote from: S'mon;794857I'm not sure how you could genuinely take that from anything I've written. My personal viewpoint is close to Benthamite Utilitarianism - Greatest Good of the Greatest Number, with 'Good' being 'human flourishing' or similar. I used to see things more in classical-Liberal individualist terms, but I have come round to thinking that social conservatives have a point that human flourishing is best accomplished in a well ordered society; something close to what Margaret Thatcher called 'ordered liberty'. Not tyranny of the majority, but not tyranny of the minority either. Minorities should be tolerated as far as possible but should not impose on the majority where that would lower net sum total wellbeing.

The problem with utilitarian ethics is that is does not protect minorities well.  The greatest happiness for the greatest number..... ideas of natural rights doesn't sit well in that philosophy.  How does one live out the principles of the UN's Charter for Human Rights?  How do societies deal with entrenched power groups who deny minorities access to resources/ justice etc etc?  If we were all equal, and all rational, then I think Bentham's ideas would have greater credence. IMHO

Quote from: One Horse Town;794858Welcome BenTheFerg.

Please feel free to use the roleplaying section of the board.

Thanks.  Time poor most of the time...... but will contribute/ etc where I can rather than simply lurking.

Quote from: BenTheFerg;794837Why do you think Marxism is behind feminism?

First Wave Feminism predates cultural Marxism (which is a heresy of classical Marxism since it sees cultural as more important than economic relations), but first-wave Feminism was largely Fabian Socialist in origin. The Fabians themselves were also heavily influenced by Marx. The still-ongoing Fabian effort to reconstruct society is long merged with the Cultural Marxist effort in most respects, though there are some differences in emphasis they are pretty well compatible. In general c-M is more influential in the USA, Fabianism in the UK. Post-1960s Feminism has been more c-M than Fabian, and certainly the kind of dialectic used by Sarkeesian & co is c-M.  There are still some other strands of Feminism which are not primarily c-M.

Is this a troll or a really well programed bot?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;794864Is this a troll or a really well programed bot?

I assume you mean me since I am new.  Sigh. I am a gamer.  Of the old school variety. Been gaming since the early 1980s. Mainly rpgs but where time allows, video games and board games.  Nice being dehumanised.  Hope you feel better now.

Quote from: BenTheFerg;794866I assume you mean me since I am new.  Sigh. I am a gamer.  Of the old school variety. Been gaming since the early 1980s. Mainly rpgs but where time allows, video games and board games.  Nice being dehumanised.  Hope you feel better now.

Quote from: S'mon;794853Anonymous threats seem to be very common; credible threats are much rarer. Pro-GamerGaters and Anti-GamerGaters seem to both get them. While it's possible that Sarkeesian was lying, it seems far more likely that she got the same sort of non-credible threat that pro-GamerGaters also routinely get. The SJW narrative is that all threats against them are credible and should be investigated while threats against their enemies are non-existent, non-credible, or their enemies deserve it anyway.

As far as I can see - from my reading of the media and examination of the material - and I admit I am not a police officer/ forensic data analyst - but as far as I can see, the threats to Sarkeesian have been very unpleasant.  Not just the hate and misogynistic abuse and rape threats that male gamers just don't get....but add to that her doxxing, the hacking and DDOSing of her KS, the rape art about her, the online game in which you hit her.... within this context - something you guys ignore - death threats must feel even more scary and unpleasant.  Using your language, FRAMING this within a wider theoretical understanding of power inequalities and how power works, aides in understanding since this can't be seen in isolation.  

What so called SJW/ liberal journalists have tried to point out is that such online bullying of those with a liberal view/ their dehumanisation (as I have just predictably experienced) makes the internet an unpleasant environment in which to communicate and share thoughts and ideas.

On a personal front, I want rpg/ gaming discussion forums to be troll free and a genuine place where people feel safe and able to share ideas.  RPGNet after its banning of Zak S etc made me not want to post there.....but I was also aware that this forum may have a lot of anti-liberal 'libertarians'....who would troll any dissenting views.  I guess I will see how this goes... but certainly I have not been impressed by the lack of empathy about online violence against women.

and I am not aware of any decent journalist/ cultural critic who thinks that threats of rape are a good thing.  If there are people out there trying to justify it, no matter what their position on #gamergate or any other matter, they are a total asshole.  I think anyone who does that should be shot down.  It does concern me that this is not a big issue here on this forum. But what do I know? Being a bot.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;794871

Thanks for the welcome!

Quote from: S'mon;794863First Wave Feminism predates cultural Marxism (which is a heresy of classical Marxism since it sees cultural as more important than economic relations), but first-wave Feminism was largely Fabian Socialist in origin. The Fabians themselves were also heavily influenced by Marx. The still-ongoing Fabian effort to reconstruct society is long merged with the Cultural Marxist effort in most respects, though there are some differences in emphasis they are pretty well compatible. In general c-M is more influential in the USA, Fabianism in the UK. Post-1960s Feminism has been more c-M than Fabian, and certainly the kind of dialectic used by Sarkeesian & co is c-M.  There are still some other strands of Feminism which are not primarily c-M.

I understand my ideologies.

But you claim that Cultural Marxism has some kind of hegemonic control .... in the US? Over whom? Games designers? Journalists?  I really can't see any evidence for your argument!

Moreover, I can't agree with you that feminism = cultural Marxism. some feminism is clearly influenced (Marxist Feminism of the 1960s) but hell.... time has moved on..... we are now into 4th Wave Feminism.  3rd wave was sooooooo 1990s  

Primarily though - abstract discussions of is/ isn't feminism Marxism aside, I can't see any truth/ evidence to suggest feminists or Marxists are in any way influential in the US or UK!  They are fighting (at best) a losing battle!

Quote from: BenTheFerg;794874As far as I can see - from my reading of the media and examination of the material - and I admit I am not a police officer/ forensic data analyst - but as far as I can see, the threats to Sarkeesian have been very unpleasant.  Not just the hate and misogynistic abuse and rape threats that male gamers just don't get....but add to that her doxxing, the hacking and DDOSing of her KS, the rape art about her, the online game in which you hit her.... within this context - something you guys ignore - death threats must feel even more scary and unpleasant.  Using your language, FRAMING this within a wider theoretical understanding of power inequalities and how power works, aides in understanding since this can't be seen in isolation.  

What so called SJW/ liberal journalists have tried to point out is that such online bullying of those with a liberal view/ their dehumanisation (as I have just predictably experienced) makes the internet an unpleasant environment in which to communicate and share thoughts and ideas.

On a personal front, I want rpg/ gaming discussion forums to be troll free and a genuine place where people feel safe and able to share ideas.  RPGNet after its banning of Zak S etc made me not want to post there.....but I was also aware that this forum may have a lot of anti-liberal 'libertarians'....who would troll any dissenting views.  I guess I will see how this goes... but certainly I have not been impressed by the lack of empathy about online violence against women.

and I am not aware of any decent journalist/ cultural critic who thinks that threats of rape are a good thing.  If there are people out there trying to justify it, no matter what their position on #gamergate or any other matter, they are a total asshole.  I think anyone who does that should be shot down.  It does concern me that this is not a big issue here on this forum. But what do I know? Being a bot.

Hello.
....
I'll go directly to it:
Of course you won't really find anyone admitting to thinking internetbullying is a good thing, and that includes of course rape- and death-threats.
Those would be shot down digitally and massively discredited in reality.

This site has a few shitheads(most have gotten run off, though), but the rest is far better informed than you currently seem to think.
Some has problems getting their real points across, and it is possible you think they are worse than they are.
Some is also short to retaliate when they think they have been slighted, but are really sensible once you grasp what they are really pissed at.

...Why the fuck am I writing this ....
Perhaps you remind me of me.
Perhaps I just is about to see too much phrasings from rpgnet or so, that you haven't really thought through, and that some here recognize all too well, so they might ignore that phrase or even get irritated or angered by it.

Essentially, think through what you say, and be prepared for perhaps being wrong where you think you are not.
Also be prepared for admitting that you don't know enough.

By the way, I tried reading your first post.
I gave up after 2/3 and read your summary.
According to your summary, you have clearly gotten a bad and incorrect impression of GamerGate.

Why'd he be screaming at others, calling them nerds? He's the one playing the game with a mic on, for crying out loud. Even then, it's not particularly strong insult. Neither is none, nobody or neither.