Quote from: Will;794650I don't care about 'collusion in gaming journalism.'

Of course not, because the collusion is by people sharing the team jersey, right?

Quote from: Will;794650I also don't care about silencing dissent. That's more characteristic GG paranoia and tinfoil hattery.

Only when it happens to you, like on purple, eh?

Quote from: Will;794650I DO care about people terrorizing other people, and then slacktivists wringing their hands about how they are NOT WITH THOSE GUYS but happily riding on the shit-bags' coat-tails because actually going out and trying to drum up support under a different flag would be, like, hard and junk.

Of course the doxxing, death-threating and other crap is only done by the #GG side, right? Wrong.  Of course you ignore the GGers who are actively denouncing the negative attacks even though no one on the other side is even admitting that such things are possible from their members.

Quote from: Will;794650I also find tellingly stupid how much people like Krueger are eager to try to see conspiracy and vast motives in people rather than accepting 'hey, a bunch of people think you guys are assholes' because a bunch of people under your brand are assholes.

Assholes would be an acceptable complaint for some of the more egregious examples, misogyny as a tag for the entire thing (as you keep claiming) is you keeping up the narrative.  As far as conspiracy, the dozen supposed competitors speaking with one voice simultaneously and shown to be colluding through corresponding documents proved the "conspiracy", which of course you label as such because everyone wearing misogynist tinfoil hats fits the narrative, right?

The only thing pathetic is your total lack of intellectual honesty.

Sorry, confusing word choice. When I said 'I don't care about silencing dissent' I meant that that's not my personal goal or anything I'm trying to do, but given it appears after the same phrase in a different meaning just before, my bad.

Quote from: Haffrung;794653There's entertainment and cultural content that appeals largely (though not exclusively) to men, and content that appeals largely (though not exclusively) to women. Scrap-booking as a hobby is considerably bigger than tabletop RPGs, and it's something like 98 per cent female.

For whatever reason I know a lot of scrapbookers (all women)... I spend time on scrapbooking/crafting sites and watch scrapbooking videos. They have their own sorts of drama sometimes but one thing I've NEVER heard/seen discussed is how to get more men into the hobby.
None of the hand-wringing insecurity over their hobby that I associate with RPGs either.

Quote from: Will;794647Your conspiracy theory is pathetic.

I DON'T CARE.

It's gaming journalism. This is like saying 'hey, North Korea stories of the Glorious Leader is inaccurate!'

No shit. Gaming journalism has been next to useless for... well, since it began. At least nowadays you can find random small bloggers that aren't suckling at big company teats.

The ONLY reason you guys are upset about it NOW is because feminists are involved.

The point is that, for the first time that I'm aware of, the journalists basically called out most of the people in their beat/industry as a bunch of pathetic losers. And they did it in a concerted manner.

If you can recall any time this has happened before, I'd like to hear about. A half-dozen prominent sports reporters calling out sports fans as a bunch of moronic slobs. A half-dozen prominent movie reviewers denouncing film audiences as unsophisticated rubes. A half-dozen prominent music reviewers slamming music fans for their taste in hit songs.

It takes a special kind of myopic hubris to do what the Gamers are Dead authors did.

Quote from: Will;794664Given what I've seen happen to women in countless ways and fields and areas, I think assuming things are the way they are due to natural preference and tendencies is a lot of self-serving privileged crap.

'The way they are' covers a lot. I didn't say every disparity between participation of men and women comes from innate differences, did I? We were talking about entertainment. And even there, I think there is some cultural bias at work. But it's a huge leap from 'there is some cultural bias at work' to 'the natural state is 50/50 participation and the only thing preventing that is misogyny.'

Adult women read fiction at about a 2:1 ratio to men. That's huge. Why isn't that on the media radar? Why aren't there movements dedicated to addressing the problem? Where are the calls to root out the misandry that surely must be at the root of such a stark disparity.

An even bigger elephant in the room is the rapidly diverging educational attainment between women and men in the West. The dramatically higher school drop-out rate of young men versus women. The dominance of young women in the high school honor rolls. The widening spread in post-secondary enrollment between men and women. It's remarkable how little attention has been paid to the achievement of clear majorities of women entering the professions of law, medicine, and even accounting.

Crickets chirping. No, instead we're witnessing an uproar over the gender inclusiveness of fucking video games.

Quote from: Simlasa;794669For whatever reason I know a lot of scrapbookers (all women)... I spend time on scrapbooking/crafting sites and watch scrapbooking videos. They have their own sorts of drama sometimes but one thing I've NEVER heard/seen discussed is how to get more men into the hobby.
None of the hand-wringing insecurity over their hobby that I associate with RPGs either.

Scrap-booking is suffering due to the move to digital photography, the cloud, and all that stuff. But I don't think I've ever heard that the solution to declining participation is making the hobby more appealing to men.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/29/opinion/anita-sarkeesian-on-video-games-great-future.html?_r=0

'Death of the gamer' isn't a negative thing. It's a positive thing. When everyone is a gamer, the term loses it's significance.

My kids really like computer games. I am steeling myself for the inevitable crap my daughter is going to face, assuming gaming culture doesn't change. When I was a kid, gaming seemed more inclusive, if anything, because companies experimented more, and it was such a novel and smaller thing. Then things regressed as huge companies went for big titles and more people got in and started feeling entitled, start seeing gaming as an identity.

The 'boy's club' started it. There used to be Ms. PacMan.

Quote from: Simlasa;794669For whatever reason I know a lot of scrapbookers (all women)... I spend time on scrapbooking/crafting sites and watch scrapbooking videos. They have their own sorts of drama sometimes but one thing I've NEVER heard/seen discussed is how to get more men into the hobby.
None of the hand-wringing insecurity over their hobby that I associate with RPGs either.

That's because there are no men clamoring to join it. I'm just guessing. I have no hard numbers.

I know a fair amount of girl gamers, though. Some of which regularly kick guys asses at Call of Duty, incidentally. I have not heard these concerns out of them, ever, regarding sexualized violence, for example, or not feeling included. I don't think they'd oppose having more female representation, though.

//www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-support-feminism-if-it-means-murdering-all,37301/

snerk

This man is a strong supporter of #gamergate and #notyourshield.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2KePdPrKss&list=UUU64AfivgQUOPuIJ8N5YaCA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ZoYSILbQ8&list=UUU64AfivgQUOPuIJ8N5YaCA

The second video really paints the anti-gamergate people for who they really are.

Quote from: Will;794664Given what I've seen happen to women in countless ways and fields and areas, I think assuming things are the way they are due to natural preference and tendencies is a lot of self-serving privileged crap.

I've worked in game testing for 12+ years, I've worked at Nintento and Microsoft, and a few smaller companies. I've worked at HER Interactive and in the casual game field, testing those casual games that soccer moms play. I've never seen women get anything but fair treatment. I've worked for female bosses and supervisors.

Both these posts are anecdotes.

Quote from: Will;794679http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/29/opinion/anita-sarkeesian-on-video-games-great-future.html?_r=0

'Death of the gamer' isn't a negative thing. It's a positive thing. When everyone is a gamer, the term loses it's significance.

My kids really like computer games. I am steeling myself for the inevitable crap my daughter is going to face, assuming gaming culture doesn't change. When I was a kid, gaming seemed more inclusive, if anything, because companies experimented more, and it was such a novel and smaller thing. Then things regressed as huge companies went for big titles and more people got in and started feeling entitled, start seeing gaming as an identity.

The 'boy's club' started it. There used to be Ms. PacMan.

If everyone is special, than no one is? What a load of crap.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;794611Ideally, yes. The problem, as you noted, is the narrative that she's wielding. By othering gamers, she creates an atmosphere of fear. Like Felicia Day's recent blog post about how she crossed the street to avoid [strike]black men[/strike] gamers.

"Othering?" Who gives a shit about that?  I've been a geek my entire life.  I'm always the "other."

Quote from: Will;794679http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/29/opinion/anita-sarkeesian-on-video-games-great-future.html?_r=0

'Death of the gamer' isn't a negative thing. It's a positive thing. When everyone is a gamer, the term loses it's significance.

My kids really like computer games. I am steeling myself for the inevitable crap my daughter is going to face, assuming gaming culture doesn't change. When I was a kid, gaming seemed more inclusive, if anything, because companies experimented more, and it was such a novel and smaller thing. Then things regressed as huge companies went for big titles and more people got in and started feeling entitled, start seeing gaming as an identity.

The 'boy's club' started it. There used to be Ms. PacMan.

Ok...
Name three other games (especially one that isn't a clone of another game), with a female protagonist in 1981/1982.

Quote from: Snowman0147;794690This man is a strong supporter of #gamergate and #notyourshield.

AAAAHHHH!H!!H!!H!H!1111!!11 SCARY BLACK GUY!!!!1!! What, are you trying to trigger me?!?!

Good stuff, thanks for the links.

Of course, he's just a self hating misogynist, and also a race traitor, clearly. Probably a gang-banger who robs liquor stores and beats women too.

(There, saved some folks the trouble of having to actually type their feelings - you're welcome!)

I also love the examples of thoughtful, clearly reasoned Tweets from anti-GG folks he uses in the second video. Man, Will, you're right - GG has the monopoly on violence and threats - sorry I ever doubted you.

It's never been that #GG has had the majority of hate and vitriol that's been spewed into this nonsense, it's that it's only wrong when they do it!  That's the message we should take by them only focusing on one side of things. The people against #GG, are only doing what's right when they do things that they condemn others for, right?