Quote from: Novastar;792617Wait, when did MRA immediately equate to anti-feminism?
I will admit a lot of Real World MRA's come off that way; but being an advocate for Men's Rights is closer to classical Feminism (everyone's equal), than a lot of Feminism being preached today.

I would argue, strenuously, that MRA has almost nothing to do with being an advocate for Men's Rights.

I mean, hell, I advocate for men's rights. I consider myself a feminist as much for men as for women.

(Although, on the line of 'words people feel are tainted,' I wonder if we should start talking about Egalitarianism again and drop some of the specific words)

Quote from: Will;792610S'mon, are you saying the women there are MRA? Or anti-feminists? MRA is a subset of anti-feminism, not synonymous.

Yes, they would all call themselves MRA, as far as I know. I only know Karen Straughan well, though. You could try watching her videos (best to start from the earliest) and see if you think she hates women.

lol, and then there's people doing a horrible disservice to everyone (but mostly themselves), by trying to flame themselves...

Can I build bridges by saying I think Twitter really sucks and fosters the worst elements of online communication?

You can build bridges by getting your head out of your ass.  Seriously people are offering evidence and your not paying attention.  Novastar been offering a lot of evidence in other threads as well.  S'more been offering you links to a highly intelligent woman that knows what the hell she is talking about.  Hell I had offered a link of a guy (who supports gamergate) offering money to anyone that can capture the asshat that sent the mass shooting threats.

Where is your evidence to support your claims?  Oh you got is Huffington Post which I wouldn't trust at all.  In fact no one should trust them.

Quote from: Will;792626Can I build bridges by saying I think Twitter really sucks and fosters the worst elements of online communication?

Whole-heartedly.
I don't actually use it myself (these images are archived elsewhere), and after GamerGate, I can pretty much promise that I never will.

140 character limit seems engineered to be the perfect length, to post something to piss off large sums of people with!

Quote from: Snowman0147Oh you got is Huffington Post which I wouldn't trust at all. In fact no one should trust them.

Oh, I don't know, I read the Huffington Post all the time. I just remember to take into account it's bias, same as when I read Fox or MSNBC articles (and, unfortunately more & more, CNN articles too :banghead:)

It's why with Brianna Wu breaking the story into MSM (MSNBC, HuffPo, CNN, CBS), they're all running the Misogyny angle. One, because that's the story Wu is selling, but also because Misgyny is sexy. It sells well. It's a story they have experience running. Journalistic ethics and integrity? That's shit they talk about back at college, not in the real world, where it's dog-eat-dog for ratings. Hell, people might even start looking into the unethical shit that MSM does! Misogyny is an easier sell, and doesn't rock their journalistic boat.

The problem is Wu is literally the worst candidate for them to run with. She created a sockpuppet account, to directly attack pro-GG. She tried to make an meme using the picture of an autistic asian child in full meltdown, to mock Gamergate. She announced she had been doxxed on Twitter 2 minutes before the offending tweet showed up (she can tell the future!). Brianna, is going to lose it spectacularly in the future, on live TV.

Quote from: Will;792626Can I build bridges by saying I think Twitter really sucks and fosters the worst elements of online communication?

No argument here, wish the whole thing would vanish in a puff of volcanic ash.

Quote from: Will;792589So. I think it's more of an excuse simply because 'feminist' is quite clearly a broader, more diffuse group.

On what do you base this? personal opinion?

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;792637On what do you base this? personal opinion?

Observation? Feel free to make a counter-argument.

Quote from: Will;792626Can I build bridges by saying I think Twitter really sucks and fosters the worst elements of online communication?

They are like most other social media companies and revenue generating community sites in this regard.

Quote from: Will;792638Observation? Feel free to make a counter-argument.

Well, when you come up with some hard numbers, then we can argue, because my observation is that the MRAs are diverse too.

One in five people identify as Feminists, but I'll hazard if you asked people "Do you believe men and women are equals, and each should get equal representation?", you'll get an outstanding high percentage of people in the US who agree with that statement, which is the aim of classical Feminism.

The problem, is that modern Feminism has been hijacked by Radicals. So you get a mismatch of Classical Feminists, sex-positive feminists, sex-negative feminists, 3rd Wave Feminists, and outright misandrists, all under the umbrella.

And it's bad enough that over 60% of women, will not claim membership in an ideology that expressly should champion them.

Quote from: Christopher Hitchens

Quote from: WillObservation? Feel free to make a counter-argument.

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.

Quote from: Novastar;792641One in five people identify as Feminists, but I'll hazard if you asked people "Do you believe men and women are equals, and each should get equal representation?", you'll get an outstanding high percentage of people in the US who agree with that statement, which is the aim of classical Feminism.

The problem, is that modern Feminism has been hijacked by Radicals. So you get a mismatch of Classical Feminists, sex-positive feminists, sex-negative feminists, 3rd Wave Feminists, and outright misandrists, all under the umbrella.

And it's bad enough that over 60% of women, will not claim membership in an ideology that expressly should champion them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html

QuoteBut asked if they believe that "men and women should be social, political, and economic equals," 82 percent of the survey respondents said they did, and just 9 percent said they did not. Equal percentages of men and women said they agreed with that statement, along with 87 percent of Democrats, 81 percent of independents and 76 percent of Republicans.

There are two ways you could take this:
Feminism as a movement makes people steer clear.
Anti-feminism has successfully spread propaganda to make people reject the label (and some of the aims).

I think it's a combination weighted a bit toward the second.


So, Novastar, you claim I am making claims without proof... you think MRAs represent anywhere near 20% of folks in the US?

The link's title supports Novastar's assertion:

"Poll: Few Identify As Feminists, But Most Believe In Equality Of Sexes"

People don't need anti-feminism in order to distance themselves from the word "feminism". The toxicity in the movement does that all on its own:

http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2014/08/04/its-a-real-mystery-as-to-what-prompts-people-to-become-anti-feminists-noh/

Yes, it does.

I said that 2 pages back. There's no 'I'll hazard,' that was something I pointed out.

(This is my last post in this thread, since clearly almost nobody can be bothered to read posts before responding)