I've never met a person who's told me "Check your privilege!", that didn't mean "Check your entitlements!" rather than "Check your perspective!"

If 'privilege' is meant to be taken the latter way, people have done a poor job teaching it that way.

There have been studies done with taking a big stack of resumes and changing the gender or ethnicity of the name at the top (for example switching out "John Smith," "Jane Smith" "Jamal Smith, "Lisa Choi," etc. etc.) you get quite different responses often quite massive ones (like "Jamal Smith's" resume being e-mailed to 100 random companies and "John Smith's" resume being emailed to a 100 random companies and John Smith getting twice as many responses despite their being identical except for the name. So there's a real problem here, there are a thousand problems with how "privilege" is used on the internet but there are real substantial biases still at work that can be objectively proven.

Okay what do you want me to do with it after I am done checking my privilege?  Seriously there isn't a lot to do about it and I refuse to be a walking sheeple that annoys other people like the social justice crowd.  Like it, or not I am not the one causing the suffering of others nor did they cause me to suffer.  Just take that check your privilege talk and shove it straight up your ass.

Edit:  Should clarify that was not targeted at anyone in this thread.  I am just sick of whiny people with entitlement complexities spewing that phrase.  If they get to act like bigots behind everyone's back to minorities that don't agree with them, then I don't need to respect them.

Quote from: Novastar;799856I've never met a person who's told me "Check your privilege!", that didn't mean "Check your entitlements!" rather than "Check your perspective!"

If 'privilege' is meant to be taken the latter way, people have done a poor job teaching it that way.

I see it used about perspective a lot, particularly when guys are mansplaining or white people are telling black people what the black experience is.

The thing is, privilege usually does translate to advantage. It's just not simple, because there's a bunch of different privileges that interact, and better odds are just that... better odds.

The fact that, say, a poor white person has more odds of success than a poor black person isn't a great comfort, and it also doesn't seem meaningful if the white person is unlucky and the black person is lucky.


But hey, class and income is ALSO a privilege issue. I see a lot of folks say 'I'm white but I grew up poor and'... well, ok. You got a +20% bonus for being white, a -30% penalty for growing up poor, but the special rules for 'poor' mean that your whiteness bonus is halved unless you get the Swords and Sciences supplement, in which case you have to multiply it by Tan of the geographic location angle...

Quote from: Snowman0147;799864Okay what do you want me to do with it after I am done checking my privilege?  Seriously there isn't a lot to do about it and I refuse to be a walking sheeple that annoys other people like the social justice crowd.  Like it, or not I am not the one causing the suffering of others nor did they cause me to suffer.  Just take that check your privilege talk and shove it straight up your ass.

You could try being a more compassionate human being who doesn't insist that people's experiences aren't valid when they tell you about them.

Just a thought.

Quote from: Snowman0147;799864Okay what do you want me to do with it after I am done checking my privilege?  Seriously there isn't a lot to do about it and I refuse to be a walking sheeple that annoys other people like the social justice crowd.  Like it, or not I am not the one causing the suffering of others nor did they cause me to suffer.  Just take that check your privilege talk and shove it straight up your ass.

That's pretty much where I'm at.. I've heard this privilege bullshit from too many trust fund babies and petty false authorities.  I figure it's pretty much just a bargaining position, an accusation made to put a target on the defensive, twist a conversation around to Them having to justify.. ya know, being Them.

I'v thankfully never had someone actually say to me that I needed to "check my privilege". Probably because I don't associate with the sorts of people likely to say something like that. Thinking about it, the only response I can imagine offering is "it's doing just fine, thanks".


What I think this touches on is the huuge divide between the way I see the world and my responsibility within it, and the way certain other people do.

I hate statistics. I think they are meaningless drivel. Half the time they're either made up or based on incredibly biased studies, most of the rest of the time they involve samples of 500 (or even less) people, which considering that is barely 1% of the population of the city I cuurrently live in, let alone a country, let alone the world, it drives me nuts to have people use statistics to back up their, frankly, prejudices. But more importantly than that, I don't think it matters. Ever.

I personally believe that the only thing in life that matters is the unique interactions between individuals. I don't care about trends, I don't care about probabilities I don't care about any excuse someone comes up with to justify dealing with other human beings as generalizations. I think every human being is unique, and I dont care how easy it is to think otherwise, I think the only moral way to think is to deal with people that way. And yes, that's a harder way to live. Human brains are naturally predisposed to generalizations. To prejudice. Its easier to think in those terms. Its safer its more comforting, it makes people feel like they've got something "figured out".

I don't care. I'm not interested in people's comfort or what's easy for them. I think the moment , in any line of reasoning, where you jump from dealing with people as individuals to dealing with people as aggregate representations of a group, then you've committed a fallacy of thought.

And I also realize that view is the direct opposite of many other people around. But that's the line in the sand I draw between an idea or belief I think is worth considering and political claptrap I have no interest in.

Quote from: Iosue;799849this comic that "perfectly explains white privilege."
.

That comic is moronic, frankly. Itsays "being white means I'm more likely to get my degree"?No. If you f-ing study and pass your classes you are 100% likely to receive your degree, regardless of any other factor. I mean, what are they even trying to say? That PoC are being discriminated against by not doing their homework? That schools hand out diplomas based on ethnicity of the recipient? That being white makes you better at school? Hell if I was a PoC, I'd be offended by that BS.

That people will filter their judgement about your performance based on what you are, because people aren't robots, which is kind of the point?

I've known people who got summarily ejected from their major because some highly placed professor just decided 'nope, you aren't right for this program.'

(CMU Architecture department, for example)

Then that person should be sued. Its not a matter of "white privilege" that some people are racist dumbasses.

... Seriously, Tristram?

You can't imagine the thousand different ways someone can do racist, sexist, anti-Christian, or a dozen other unfair things and not get sued over it? Or where a suit just ends up with the accuser getting a heap of shit for the rest of their life?

You're also REALLY glossing over the entire concept of perceptive blindness to begin with. Lots of people do racist stuff without thinking they are racist, without being conscious of it. That's... kind of the point.

Give a bunch of people an SAT test. Before the test, give one of two speeches.
Speech A, encourage people to do well.
Speech B, encourage people to do well, but note that women often score worse on SAT tests.

Group B, the women will do worse.

Quote from: TristramEvans;799872That comic is moronic, frankly. Itsays "being white means I'm more likely to get my degree"?No. If you f-ing study and pass your classes you are 100% likely to receive your degree, regardless of any other factor.

It's a terrible treatment of the subject, but there's definitely institutional factors contributing to these statistics. The studies of how people with "black-sounding" names suffer when applying for schools, getting graded on assignments, and when applying for jobs after school are damnably clear.

Your belief that a white guy and a black guy can both provide the same input to the system and get the same output back is, in fact, exactly what white privilege is.

Quote from: TristramEvans;799872That comic is moronic, frankly. Itsays "being white means I'm more likely to get my degree"?No. If you f-ing study and pass your classes you are 100% likely to receive your degree, regardless of any other factor. I mean, what are they even trying to say? That PoC are being discriminated against by not doing their homework? That schools hand out diplomas based on ethnicity of the recipient? That being white makes you better at school? Hell if I was a PoC, I'd be offended by that BS.

Well, all other things being equal, college is expensive.  That will skew things.

Quote from: Iosue;799882Well, all other things being equal, college is expensive.  That will skew things.

IT'll skew attendance, maybe, but not graduation.

Mind you this is for the USA as I don't know the rest of the world, but college is expensive because of two reasons.  

First off our society had done a wonderful job in tricking people into thinking they need college which normally you don't.  No I literally mean that.  Unless your going for a STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Medicine), working in law, or something that demands a great deal of knowledge you honestly don't need college.  In fact your wasting money and putting yourself into debt that may not be payable.  Most people do not figure that out till it is too late because they got swept in the belief that if they don't go to college they won't get a job.

Secondly college is expensive because the colleges are getting income that they can't lose.  It is practically a giving.  This is due to the federal government giving out loans to everyone.  With such a easy and dependable source of income colleges can jack up the costs to their liking.  Which means more students are going to get fuck over.  Mind you once the loan is made the college is paid.  They got their money and don't have to worry about things such as if your education can land you a job.  Instead you have to worry about the federal government that is now breathing down the back of your neck.  They want the money back and bankruptcy will not save you from the IRS.

My personal advice for people who got out of high school is this.  Pick up a trade in trade school.  Not only do they pay you money while you train, but your at least picking up a skill that people will want to hire you.  Not completely perfect, but even if it doesn't work out your not debt slave.

Now if there is no trade school for the job you want it might be because you don't need a higher education for that job.  I mean if you want to be a podcast host do you really need a college education?  No.  You need to have some basic computer skills and know how to use your equipment.  Beyond that your success is determine by your talent and showman skill which cannot be taught in a college.