Quote from: Will;799347Yeah, that's much worse than a system that discriminates against merit, in favor of privilege.

You've really got to stop using that word. It refers to phenomena, like that  measured by the implicit association test, that are all about unconscious biases, not privileges. Co-opting privilege, a word that has meant people who have real power, wealth, social connections, and influence, who can deliberately make the world bend to their will, in other words the very real, material advantages of class, is just plain stupid. It's counterproductive, it alienates the traditional working class allies of progressives, and it splits progressives into tiny clans squabbling about who has less subconscious favoritism.

Quote from: Will;799360I've always found it odd how anti-Islam conservatives are and pro-Israel, given radical Islam is WAY more consistent with conservative policies than Israel is.

Some fundamentalists are looking to immanentize the eschaton, and in order for that to happen Israel needs to exist. Have a link.

http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2010/06/christian-fundamentalists-support-israel-why/

Quote from: apparition13;799370Co-opting privilege, a word that has meant people who have real power, wealth, social connections, and influence, who can deliberately make the world bend to their will, in other words the very real, material advantages of class, is just plain stupid. It's counterproductive, it alienates the traditional working class allies of progressives, and it splits progressives into tiny clans squabbling about who has less subconscious favoritism.

I rather thought that was the point of all the "privilege" nonsense: to distract people from noticing.

Quote from: Spike;799351Ah... such eloquence. I shall, of course, pretend that this is, in fact, a reasoned and cogent argument and respond in kind.

It's the response your post deserved.

Quote from: The Ent;799375It's the response your post deserved.

Now THAT is what "looking for a fight" looks like.


This thread is pretty far past its expiration date anyways

Quote from: Will;799347Yeah, that's much worse than a system that discriminates against merit, in favor of privilege.

All the privilege in the world can't make you capable of doing calculus.
...it might help to get a bullshit degree, though. Like Women's Studies.

QuoteThe best thing about GG and things like it is that it's a sign of how much progress has been made, that folks are realizing that their comfortable privilege is ending and they are freaking out about it.

Dude, do you even look at the people on the anti-side?
Zoe Quinn, Alex Lifschiez(sp?), and Brianna Wu are all Trust Fund babies.
McIntosh and Sarkeesian aren't exactly hurting for money, either.

I can go thru my High School Yearbook, point to 1 out of 3 people and finish with "Dead" or "Served/Serving Time".

Don't even try to play the privilege card on me, with any of these people. None of them have EVER known the joy of a Welfare Christmas.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;799362protip: if you're tired of anti GG folks focusing on sexism and misogyny instead of journalistic integrity, STOP turning a blind eye and/or accepting and/or tacitly approving of sexism/misogyny in your ranks.  Just a thought...

I've considered it, but after having a look at my ranks, they seem pretty chill.  Particularly for a bunch who've been swung on at length, by major media outlets no less.  I think I'd rather act to strip social justice advocates of all credibility.  Denied their accusation-as-guilt, accusation-as-bargaining-position strategies, they'll fade from the public sphere and be academia's problem again.

Also, I'll have to do something about academia; they've fucked America over but good, and I don't just mean the scam-artistry they've practiced in conning a bunch of kids into getting mortgages with no houses.

Quote from: Novastar;799333I'm a conservative, and even I have enough awareness to point out the only nations more conservative than the US tend to be Islamic monarchies/theocracies.

I think that's a bit shortsighted. The US is more conservative (less radical) than the rest of the Anglosphere* and Germanic/Scandic northwestern Europe. I don't think it's more conservative than southern or eastern Europe or Japan, and it's certainly not more conservative than most of the developing world.

*US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada. I'd exclude Ireland, which is relatively conservative in some ways, though like Spain etc it has a powerful left-liberal elite now.

I would agree though that normal Americans and normal Muslims tend to have more in common than either do with the secular left-liberals who seem to be the majority in Sweden and a hegemonic minority in other Anglosphere and Germanic/Scandic nations.

Quote from: woodsmoke;799339Hobby gaming, be it video, tabletop or otherwise, is one of the few remaining areas of western culture in which people don't reflexively feel the need to walk on egg shells lest they unwittingly run afoul of the paper-thin skin of some self-righteous harpy with a persecution complex and an ideological axe to grind.

Well, I do now.

Quote from: Spike;799359I can't answer that question directly, but the term 'Social Justice' has been in use for quite some time, well over a hundred years, and is always linked to this sort of utopian-puritanism that we see in the SJW crowd.  

Yes - http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_copybook.htm - Kipling uses Social Progress similarly:


As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.


I believe it was written in 1919, and is a strong attack on SJW ideology which also predicts much of our present travails.

Quote from: Will;799360I've always found it odd how anti-Islam conservatives are and pro-Israel, given radical Islam is WAY more consistent with conservative policies than Israel is.

Particularly given conservatives really worked hard to install radical Islam so they could push out socialist-leaning moderates.

Like, the whole 'Obama is a secret Muslim!' when he supports policies the Muslims being referenced hate.

Modern Israel is quite conservative; it hasn't really been socialist for a long time.

I would call your 'socialist leaning moderates' Communists & Socialists - I still greatly prefer them to the Islamists the US favoured. I remember as a young child being sad when the USSR abandoned Afghanistan, leaving the USSR-allied Najibullah regime alone to face the US-backed Mujahideen. Najibullah was a Communist - which meant secularism and rights for women. Bad by European standards, but vastly better than the Mujahideen & Taleban.
There is a general tendency for the US to overthrow bad guys by backing much-worse guys; in the Muslim world that means backing Islamists to overthrow secular socialists.

Edit: US Conservatives did not use to be very hostile to Islamism. They became hostile to Shia Islamism when the Iranian revolutonaries took over the US embassy in Tehran. They were pro Sunni Islamism through the 1980s when they were on the same side vs the USSR. Relations deteriorated after the end of the Cold War and the rise of Al Qaeda, with 9/11 cementing the current opposition. It looks to me that the Islamists were the primary mover in this realignment - after the defeat of the USSR they decided to attack the US Imperium, and the US conservatives reacted to that attack.

Just in case I wasn't clear, yes, I think modern liberal attitudes toward Israel are unfair and stupid, too, and their soft handling of radical Islam bizarre.

So I suppose there's symmetry there.

(Sorry my responses are short -- this is low priority compared to other things and this is getting wildly ot)

Quote from: Will;799454Just in case I wasn't clear, yes, I think modern liberal attitudes toward Israel are unfair and stupid, too, and their soft handling of radical Islam bizarre.

So I suppose there's symmetry there.

(Sorry my responses are short -- this is low priority compared to other things and this is getting wildly ot)

I would replace "liberal" with "leftist".  Roughly half the country is liberal, but only a much smaller % are unfairly critical of Israel while not holding the same standards to Islam.  Just like half the country is conservative, but only a smaller % are unfairly critical of Islam while not holding the same standard to Israel.

How the heck did we get to Israel and Islam? I've been super busy at work, so I haven't kept up. I'd still like to get back to what the problem is with liberals buying games, but I suppose I'll bite...

Quote from: Sacrosanct;799470I would replace "liberal" with "leftist".  Roughly half the country is liberal, but only a much smaller % are unfairly critical of Israel while not holding the same standards to Islam.  Just like half the country is conservative, but only a smaller % are unfairly critical of Islam while not holding the same standard to Israel.

The strange thing to me is how attitudes on Islam have flipped.

Conservatives have always been pro-Israel, but radical muslims used to also be heroic freedom fighters against the communists - James Bond and Rambo were portrayed fighting alongside radical Afghani resistance. Conservatives complained about the Ayatollah or perhaps arabs more broadly, but not about Islam as a whole. Prior to 9/11, it seemed to me that the only people complaining about the Taliban were liberals complaining about education of women and the destruction of Buddhist statues.

My perception is that it was the invasion of Iraq solidified that shift. Liberals were all solidly against Bush and his push for war against Iraq, which they viewed as needless war-mongering. So movement against war-mongering and imperialism took precedence over complaints about Islam. Conservatives then took up all sorts of previously liberal complaints about Islam.

I think the consistent attitude should be "Yes, there are problems with radical Islam - but that doesn't mean that war-mongering or imperialism against them is OK." However, that easily gets twisted into emotionally being perceived as on their side and/or actually defending them.

Well, the Gamergate issue feeds into tensions in the US between conservatives and liberals, so that's one reason for side topics.

Quote from: TristramEvans;799378Now THAT is what "looking for a fight" looks like.

Nah...not really.