Quote from: TristramEvans;650191I think the 90s proved that was the least of Marvel's worries.

Of course we should all cry ourselves to sleep to think that iron man branded can openers are considered a better investment than an RPG.

Quote from: Piestrio;650204

Of course we should all cry ourselves to sleep to think that iron man branded can openers are considered a better investment than an RPG.

I'll see your can openers and raise you Marvel Toilet Paper:

Hey, everyone shits, and almost everyone opens cans.

Our preferred outlet for the imagination remains a niche.

Quote from: The Butcher;650214Hey, everyone shits, and almost everyone opens cans.

Our preferred outlet for the imagination remains a niche.

Yep. And frankly I'm glad of it. I'd really hate to see what an TTRPG industry aimed at the lowest common denominator looks like.

Quote from: TristramEvans;650216Yep. And frankly I'm glad of it. I'd really hate to see what an TTRPG industry aimed at the lowest common denominator looks like.

I'd honestly take it over the pathetic "hard-core" nerds that it's currently aimed at.

Quote from: TristramEvans;650216Yep. And frankly I'm glad of it. I'd really hate to see what an TTRPG industry aimed at the lowest common denominator looks like.

Like a food industry aimed at feeding everybody, I suppose.  

Quite a bit of truffle oil going on in some segments of the TTRPG world.  The foodies running the asylum.  

Hooray for mixed metaphors!

Quote from: TristramEvans;650210I'll see your can openers and raise you Marvel Toilet Paper:

See, I would be willing to pay money to wipe my ass with some comic writer's faces...

Yes, I'm small, I'm petty, and John Byrne would look good in brown.

Quote from: Piestrio;650241I'd honestly take it over the pathetic "hard-core" nerds that it's currently aimed at.

I kinda agree.

Quote from: Piestrio;650241I'd honestly take it over the pathetic "hard-core" nerds that it's currently aimed at.

You and me both.  For a demographic that typically finds itself on the lower end of the social status ladder in "real life", and constantly complaining about the bullying, we sure are quick to resort to the same, if not worse, behavior within the demographic itself.

Dick measuring contests and dogpile the unpopular guy aplenty.

Quote from: Piestrio;650241I'd honestly take it over the pathetic "hard-core" nerds that it's currently aimed at.

Except that the nightmare would be that it would look like Marvel Monopoly, where you can RP as Spidey passing GO.

I don't understand the complaints about MHR lacking a character creation system.  Every Marvel RPG has started with the baseline assumption that players would be playing the Marvel characters as defined by the roster books, and the character creation systems have been half-assed afterthoughts at best.

Creating your own character in MHR was worked the same way it's worked in every other Marvel RPG: Use the minimal framework they give you, copy what you can from the published characters, and where that's inadequate just make something up.

Quote from: daniel_ream;650388I don't understand the complaints about MHR lacking a character creation system.  Every Marvel RPG has started with the baseline assumption that players would be playing the Marvel characters as defined by the roster books, and the character creation systems have been half-assed afterthoughts at best.

Creating your own character in MHR was worked the same way it's worked in every other Marvel RPG: Use the minimal framework they give you, copy what you can from the published characters, and where that's inadequate just make something up.

Ah, no. The first Marvel game did assume you'd play a marvel character,  and added a 'make your own character' bit in the end of the campaign book as an afterthought. When the second (Marvel Advanced) game came out the lesson was learnt and the players book is mostly full of stuff on making your own character.

It's been a while since I looked at Saga (would have to check) but I think that was an 'afterthought' kind of thing in the back.

Marvel Universe (Diceless) was a make your own character kind of game. Sure it had plenty of character writeups but they understood people want to make their own as much or more than play established characters and gave full rules and costs for doing so. The writing was muddled, mind, and powers were vague, badly costed or overpowered in some cases.

For me the Marvel Heroic game came under 'afterthought' with regards character creation. Sure, it's in there, in a 'get everyone to agree about everyones character' sort of way crammed into a few pages. Maybe people complained and that was why they put a random character generator in some of the event books.

I have no desire - at all - to run established characters. The only reason I'd use Marvel characters is as walk on parts (good guys) or bad guys tearing the place up. I much prefer full, structured rules to make your own character, as opposed to the vague, hand waving feel that Marvel Heroic had. Each to their own I guess.

Quote from: APN;650428Ah, no. The first Marvel game did assume you'd play a marvel character,  and added a 'make your own character' bit in the end of the campaign book as an afterthought. When the second (Marvel Advanced) game came out the lesson was learnt and the players book is mostly full of stuff on making your own character.

Well, the first marvel game offered two different character creation systems in the Appendix. I wouldn't say it was an afterthought as such.

Compare MSH basic with Advanced. There's a marked switch from 'a couple of pages in the back of the campaign book' to 'taking up the whole players book' in advanced. That's quite a big switch. When MSH came out there was no hint that there'd be an advanced version at some point, and I'm betting that fan feedback/requests for more rules on character creation (and fixing certain stuff) is the reason they did it (oh, and money as well).

If you take DC Heroes (which came out before Advanced Marvel if I recall - it's been... a while. 28 years? Arggh.) they crammed so much in the box it was hard to put back in after you'd unboxed it, but dedicated a large chunk of the game to making your own characters. That became our go to game (where previously BECMI, AD&D 1e and MSH had been joint 'go-to' games). Maybe TSR came out with the Advanced game after looking at what Mayfair had done with DC.

My point is that regardless of what license is attached to a game, by including a fully featured, balanced means of making characters (rolling or point buy for the most part) that everyone can look at and agree 'this is how to make characters' instead of argue or disagree about (as per Marvel Heroic) you are opening up the game to a larger potential market.

The more I participate in these kind of 'failure' threads for Marvel the more disappointed I am that the game is done, and that I never gave it a fair shot.

So I pick the basic book up, start to read it and then realize why. The basic concept, chuck some dice, pick two for total and one for effect, no problem. It's all the other fiddly bits, terms and mechanics that have my brain whirling. I can play this thing, but god knows if I'd ever be comfortable GMing it. I even get what it does - emulates comic books, rather than simulate characters (with defined limits and so on) and have no problem with that. It's just... the writing and explanation...

Crunchy? Maybe so-so, but Chewy? Definitely.

Given the popularity of the movies, it's odd someone hasn't made a Marvel Cinematic Universe RPG.

No ties to complicated comics continuity, chance to step up to (or be recruited by) Robert Downey, Jr. I'd consider that, if the game system wasn't crap.

(From a design standpoint, IMHO, trying to emulate comics as a medium makes for a compromised RPG experience. IMHO. I'd much prefer an RPG with superhero elements, however that is implemented.)