I downloaded the free computer version of HeroQuest (here (http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/lm.broers/download.htm)), and didn't really like it. I didn't seem to be making any meaningful choices.
Given its high reputation, I'm obviously missing something. Please explain what that is.
Quote from: Age of Fable;268848I downloaded the free computer version of HeroQuest (here (http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/lm.broers/download.htm)), and didn't really like it. I didn't seem to be making any meaningful choices.
Given its high reputation, I'm obviously missing something. Please explain what that is.
This is a bit of a non answer. I love the game. Every time I play it I have a blast. I definitely know there are tactical and strategic decisions to be made during the game.
But I'll be damned if I can think of what any of them are right now.
Much of it IS pretty basic stuff that any RPGer would realize. Be careful. Check every nook and cranny. Keep the party together, even if it means taking extra time. In a one player game this can get pretty dull. In a multi-player game you'd be amazed at how many people completely disregard those basic tactics.
There's a little bit of a gambling game with whether you keep pushing your luck on treasure cards. A little bit of proper tactics there can nullify random encounters and net you a much greater haul than a quick run through the dungeon.
It's very basic. In most of the scenarios the players have the overwhelming advantage. Much of it is luck although players who used massed attacks and concentration of fire will do better than those who don't. Spells can really turn the tide, so theres a lot of importance in how the Elf and Mage play and implement their spell decks.
I'm hard pressed to think of much else.
Does the DM player make many choices?
For me, HQ is mostly about nostalgia. Elsewhise, I have little reason to get it from the attic every now and then.
The tactics are basically limited to postioning and the standard dungeon crawl tactics (keep together, search for traps etc.), and the improvement by equipment makes it just worse, as especially the crossbow allows to take cheap shots at the enemies.
Wizards and elves get a little more choice with their spells, but not much.
Unlike likewise rudimentary RPGs as OD&D, you also don't receive the luxury to go beyond the rules and experience a living world, it's just straight hack and slash where the orc tribe next door isn't alerted by the loud boom of your fireball, and not even good at it as it only requires very trivial thinking and strategy.
As I've never been the GM, I can't really speak of GM choices, but as 9.5 out of 10 monsters are limited to the "run up and clobber them" ability, I wouldn't expect too much as long as no monsters with special abilities (as the Chaos Knights) enter the picture.
So, basically, if HQ hasn't been formative for you, so that you can gleam over the trivialness with the fond feelings of the good old times, I can't really recommend it and would rather go for a real old-school dungeon-crawl RPG. (The very similar Descent seems to have got good reviews, but as I haven't yet got around to try it, I won't evaluate it myself.)
Would it be more interesting if it was competitive (between the different 'good guys')?
Or if the 'DM' player got more choice about what to throw at the players?
I'm going to disagree with everybody and say the boardgame version could be right up your alley. If you try to play the game straight, as written, it reveals some flaws that will inspire you to start tinkering immediately. The game also works well with lots of random tables. If you want to construct a bigass DMG-style SOLO dungeoncrawl allowing you to play all of the characters relatively objectively - start with Heroquest and a notebook.
Warhammer Quest, another flawed but beautiful game, is roughly comparable and you could mix things up betwixt the two. WHQ has options for between-adventure play in towns and the like that uses random events tables. Some of the online fan material expands these tables to 30 or 40 pages.
It's not ever going to be OD&D, but you knew that.
Quote from: Age of Fable;269394Would it be more interesting if it was competitive (between the different 'good guys')?
Or if the 'DM' player got more choice about what to throw at the players?
You might be more interested in Descent: Journeys in the Dark. It's structured to be competitive.
Descent does have serious problems with it's endgame, though. All of my plays have either been crushing defeat for the heroes, or a long multi-hour drawn out affair as the heroes are assured of victory, but just can't quite enforce it.
What about this idea:
the heroes are competing against each other, but can't attack each other.
Each monster is controlled by one of the players - but players can make their monsters and their hero fight if they want the experience. There's no DM player.
Maybe players bid for control of the monsters (treasure? experience?), or there's a Charisma stat which governs it? Charm-type spells could transfer control as well.
Quote from: Age of Fable;268848I didn't seem to be making any meaningful choices.
You're definitely right here. That said, ...
Quote from: Age of Fable;268848I downloaded the free computer version of HeroQuest (here (http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/lm.broers/download.htm)), and didn't really like it.
I also recently downloaded that PC game, having played the board game roughly 15 years ago. The PC game felt lame, and reminded me why I thought the board game great: it had style, and the figs and play mat were really beautifully crafted. (The PC game looks awful and not in the least inspiring.) And that's it already. Even if the game blows chunks mechanically, it really captured my imagination as a child in my early teens. To quote a great post by Haffrung, games of this style have one huge thing going for them:
QuoteThematic chrome that has little game purpose
And that's true of most Games Workshop product. Read Haffrung's entire post, I think it pertinent even though Heroquest is hardly Ameritrash by virtue of its Geographic origin:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=257948&postcount=11
OK, so it sounds like the appeal is high production values, plus interesting and unexpected things that can happen to your character?
I found it to be a great "stair-stepper" to get people into RPGs as well.
herquest is the game that helped get me into proper rpg's, so has a special place in my heart. i still tend to use it in the same way today coz usually by the time your reaching the end of the main adventure book most players are loaded up on gear and nothing is much of a threat anymore.
i used to play warhammer quest alot back in the mid ninties and loved the hero packs gw put out for it but found it got abit broken once the whole party is using the characters from the packs instead of the basic ones.
It's fast setup allowed me and a few friends to just run through and have a blast, without worrying too much about anything else, but playing.
It was the first thing resembling an RPG that I ever played, when I was about 10. Came straight after WHFB with me and was handed down to me from an older cousin.
What turned out to be a mixed blessing was that the game was missing the adventure book that told the DM what to do. We just had a board, lots of things to put on it and the rules. Before I even knew what a GM or DM was I had to decide what was in each room the heroes explored and how the monsters acted.
I have a fond memory of throwing a room full of too-dangerous monsters at the players, who decided to run through a nearby door and push a table infront of it, prompting a discussion of how long it would take the monsters to break through. I figured something out based on the attack value of the monster, must have been the first game mechanic I ever made up!
Not sure what value it holds for an experienced gamer but it was great fun for me as a kid that knew nothing about RPGs.
Quote from: Age of Fable;268848I downloaded the free computer version of HeroQuest (here (http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/lm.broers/download.htm)), and didn't really like it. I didn't seem to be making any meaningful choices.
Given its high reputation, I'm obviously missing something. Please explain what that is.
Wow. I didn't even know there was a PC version. Cool!
The board game was totally awesome. I guess that was just for the opportunity to strip the D&D game of all role-playing pretense and just bash stuff. The ultimate beer & bretzels passtime, in other words. Kill orcs, make voices and just laugh out loud on die rolls, all that with a Clue-spin on it. "Space Crusade" was basically the same thing, but with a fantasy/Warhammer 40K spin to it. Very cool as well.
The high production value remark above is also totally true. You get a board, minis that you can use in your D&D games later on... I mean, that game was win-win for a gamer. Great stuff.
reuseable minis, basic game and dungeon training, stairstepper...I have to agree with everything here. The packs added more of course for the same reason. it was a bit crazy at end, where you could hire mercs and the equipment...
The computer game is one of those you can play to kill a few minutes but I could see how boring it could get real quick.
I agree with everyone else that it was a fun simple game. It was designed so that 10 year olds with no sense of strategy wouldn't have a chance. Experienced gamers aren't going to have much challenge.
But you could probably take the dirt simple character and combat rules and make an rpg out of them by allowing actions not in the book and have situations other than monsters rushing to fight.
I believe that there are scans of the rules and some of the addons available from Hasbro or somebody.
Quote from: Nicephorus;290590I believe that there are scans of the rules and some of the addons available from Hasbro or somebody.
http://www.hasbro.com/customer-service/toy-game-instructions.cfm?page=&per_page=10&order_by=H¤t_page=9 (http://www.hasbro.com/customer-service/toy-game-instructions.cfm?page=&per_page=10&order_by=H¤t_page=9)
Quote from: Age of Fable;268848Given its high reputation, I'm obviously missing something. Please explain what that is.
I don't know anything about the computer game. My experience is with the board game.
1. It's an excellent tutorial on how to play RPGs, and a fun game in its own right.
2. It forces people to take turns.
3. It allows for players to plan strategy (who moves where and when) at whatever level they wish
4. Each character has a clearly defined role -- the fighter, the spellslinger, the trap-detector, etc.
5. It has a simple dice system so younger players can figure it out.
6. It is very visual, with many of the advantages associated with miniatures games
7. Characters can improve by getting better stuff instead of piling on the hit points
8. A full game can be played in only a couple of hours
Quote from: Nicephorus;290590It was designed so that 10 year olds with no sense of strategy wouldn't have a chance. Experienced gamers aren't going to have much challenge.
I don't really agree with the second part of this. What I found was that my experienced gamers took the game and worked to improve their efficiency. Where to place the characters for optimal advantage, what order to have the characters move/act in, and so on. As simple as the game is, they found ways to take it apart and strategize a lot more.
And my younger players could just go along for the ride. :)
Fun game, but it's more of a blast from the past for me than anything else. Played it for the first time in 15 years recently and it certainly lacked the punch of a Descent of Warhammer Quest. Although I must admit that while those two games do have their flaws (like every other game out there) they are some of my favorites of all time. :)
I could see it as a nice tool to get younger players into fantasy RPGs but I wouldn't want to stick with it for too long as the game has very little depth. Which is absolutely fine as it was designed that way.
Yeah, I am pretty sure that the fact I was around 12 was I big part of its draw.
Is Warhammer Quest a more complicated version of the same basic format?
Quote from: Age of Fable;323629Is Warhammer Quest a more complicated version of the same basic format?
Sorta. Tons more choices and strategy. And the board makes itself so no GM is needed. You can also have an ongoing game with the adventure guide.
Quote from: Gabriel2;269492You might be more interested in Descent: Journeys in the Dark. It's structured to be competitive.
Descent does have serious problems with it's endgame, though. All of my plays have either been crushing defeat for the heroes, or a long multi-hour drawn out affair as the heroes are assured of victory, but just can't quite enforce it.
Not that Descent is without flaws, but if the game is drawn out, the heroes lose, since they only go through the deck twice (can't recall how many turns that is...or is it just once? Sorry, been a while).
All games are multi-hour, though, since the players can only lose after they've been killed a few times, and that doesn't happen quick.
Quote from: Age of Fable;323629Is Warhammer Quest a more complicated version of the same basic format?
Pretty much, but MUCH more complicated. There are rules for characters gaining levels, going to towns, etc. The game sort of gets easier as the characters level (the monsters get tougher, but the traps don't), although eventually the monsters catch up.
I played in a 'campaign' that went up to 7th level, was a blast, but at some point, keeping track of all the fiddly bits will cause everyone's head to explode.
Basic Warhammer Quest also sets up faster as you don't prebuild the board.
Its a matter of rolling HPs, drawing a mission card, rolling for what kind of mission the card tile produces, shuffling that card into a deck of 6 normal dungeon cards, and shuffling 6 more dungeon cards on top of that and putting the first card on the table with the PCs on it.
Wizard draws 3 spell cards and his power store and you start playing.
Its practically a solo game if you want it too.
Quote from: Doom;340698Not that Descent is without flaws, but if the game is drawn out, the heroes lose, since they only go through the deck twice (can't recall how many turns that is...or is it just once? Sorry, been a while).
The players don't lose when the Overlord goes through the deck, they lose conquest tokens. That
can lead to a loss for the players. But your point about drawing out the game is valid. There is little gained by not moving forward as the heroes. The longer it goes on, the more resources the Overlord accumulates.
Quote from: Doom;340698All games are multi-hour, though, since the players can only lose after they've been killed a few times, and that doesn't happen quick.
Without a doubt. Put 3-4 hours aside for Descent.
Quote from: Doom;340699Pretty much, but MUCH more complicated. There are rules for characters gaining levels, going to towns, etc. The game sort of gets easier as the characters level (the monsters get tougher, but the traps don't), although eventually the monsters catch up.
I played in a 'campaign' that went up to 7th level, was a blast, but at some point, keeping track of all the fiddly bits will cause everyone's head to explode.
We played that high and it wasn't too bad. Just write down new stats and equipment on the larger character sheet and yer done. :)
We even had a bunch of the expansion figures (Witch Hunter, Pit Fighter) playing to higher levels.
Quote from: Captain Rufus;340784Basic Warhammer Quest also sets up faster as you don't prebuild the board.
Its a matter of rolling HPs, drawing a mission card, rolling for what kind of mission the card tile produces, shuffling that card into a deck of 6 normal dungeon cards, and shuffling 6 more dungeon cards on top of that and putting the first card on the table with the PCs on it.
Wizard draws 3 spell cards and his power store and you start playing.
Its practically a solo game if you want it too.
Yeah. I like games where you can either solo or just play as a group without the need for a GM/Overlord.
Quote from: ancientgamer;290566reuseable minis, basic game and dungeon training, stairstepper...
So is there any game out there now that does this? Am looking for a Heroquest-like game (boardgame with minis and great production value) to play with my 10 and 8 year olds . . .
Pete