You will need to confirm your age, to watch the Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrX7G-1xPLs)
...holy shit. :eek:
What the fuck is this shit? It's like Jack Thompson's "murder simulator" actually got made.
Even the fucking Punisher limits himself to criminals. That's what makes him an anti-hero you can follow. This seems like "Mass Murderer: The Game!"...
:jaw-dropping:
Quote from: Novastar;792708You will need to confirm your age, to watch the Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrX7G-1xPLs)
...holy shit. :eek:
What the fuck is this shit? It's like Jack Thompson's "murder simulator" actually got made.
Even the fucking Punisher limits himself to criminals. That's what makes him an anti-hero you can follow. This seems like "Mass Murderer: The Game!"...
:jaw-dropping:
I'm not a video game fan, and this is one reason why. It is "Mass Murderer: The Game!"
You know Im usually not one for moral outrage about entertainment, or caring about how some people have fun, but earlier today I just read about that guy who went on a killing spree because no one would have sex with him, and I watch that and I have to think....really? This seemed like a good premise for a game to you? Are you sure?
Theres not even a suggestion of antiheroism there, the trailer just seems to be: 'here's some sadsack mentally disturbed pervert's power-revenge fantasy made into a sadistic videogame'. There are times I struggle with my own anti-censorship views, and this is one of them.
That is, at very least, a bullshit game (do the victims even fight back?) with a premise in abysmally, pathologically bad taste.
I chalk it up to pure attention-grabbing.
Quote from: jeff37923;792710I'm not a video game fan, and this is one reason why. It is "Mass Murderer: The Game!"
That's like saying you're not a fan of RPGs because FATAL exists.
It is attention grabbing and frankly no different from the BMX Biker game that rewards the player with strippers. You want to know how that game did? It sold like shit. That game flop so hard that everyone forgot about it and moved on. It was the first game that proved that gamers in general are not some sex craved perverts, or other wise the game would had sold by the truck loads. Instead that game may had shared the same fate that ET did. A lot of unsold games filling up massive hole in the ground.
This game would meet the same fate. Trust me when I say this. Hatred will fail and will be forgotten. You don't need to be ashamed of video game players because they are not even going to want to buy it. They would rather just avoid it.
I see everyone forgot postal.
I remember when that made everyone a mass murderer.
Hell I listened to metal, wore black clothes AND played postal. I'm like a triple mass murderer :eyeroll:
It looks cheap and puerile but who cares?
It's not going to corrupt our youth, everyone can put their pearls away.
Quote from: Piestrio;792844I see everyone forgot postal.
I remember when that made everyone a mass murderer.
Hell I listened to metal, wore black clothes AND played postal. I'm like a triple mass murderer :eyeroll:
It looks cheap and puerile but who cares?
It's not going to corrupt our youth, everyone can put their pearls away.
Postal and Manhunt, hell, I even remember when the 8bit Atari Texas Chainsaw Massacre game caused a bunch of people to freak out. Of course, none of those really compare to this, but again, Ive never even seen or played the GTA games that all those moms hate so much. Of course its not going to corrupt our kids. Was never worried about that. Im worried, as usual, about moms. As a group they have the potential to cause the most harm.
All Im saying is this game is in bad taste. Not a "ok, so you have crappy taste in music, fine, as long as I dont have to listen to it" kinda bad taste. More the "if you enjoy this sort of thing Im going to consider you a seriously depraved individual I want nothing to do with" kind of bad taste, which for me, personally, is a hell of a thing. Honestly outside of the KKK and Naambla havent experienced that reaction much from myself in life.
Quote from: TristramEvansAll Im saying is this game is in bad taste. Not a "ok, so you have crappy taste in music, fine, as long as I dont have to listen to it" kinda bad taste. More the "if you enjoy this sort of thing Im going to consider you a seriously depraved individual I want nothing to do with" kind of bad taste, which for me, personally, is a hell of a thing. Honestly outside of the KKK and Naambla havent experienced that reaction much from myself in life.
I've just seen media preferences used to demonize and bash folks for decades now and I'm just tired of it.
Remember how much trouble it was to get to blood mode on sega Mortal Kombat? Press A, B, A, C, blarg. Kids these days. Hatred is from Poland too it looks like.
Quote from: Piestrio;792851I've just seen media preferences used to demonize and bash folks for decades now and I'm just tired of it.
Fair enough. Normally Id be right there with you on that.
In this case I dont feel any sort of moral outrage or panic about how this will corrupt our youth and cause people to go on killing sprees....just extreme distaste.
You kids should check out Happy Wheels.
http://www.flasharcadegamessite.com/25863-happy-wheels.html
My buddy's 11 year son plays it on the library computer in middle school with his friends because they blew past all the supposed parent-controls within the first week of 6th grade.
Quote from: TristramEvans;792744There are times I struggle with my own anti-censorship views, and this is one of them.
Anti-censorship is the only real stance if we want to live in an open and free society, but it isn't an easy stance.
For freedom of speech to mean anything, those who believe in freedom must defend the right for other people to produce, sell and enjoy entertainment that you may not enjoy, nor would you choose to produce or sell.
That includes the KKK and Naambla. While as a society, we should curtail the actions of both groups, but for freedom of speech to mean anything, we must defend the right of the KKK and Naambla to express their views, regardless of how distasteful.
For me, I have trouble with the right of anti-science people to spread their ignorance. I want them to STFU, but if I honestly want freedom of speech in our society, I must defend their right to speak freely, publish books full of ignorance and publicly preach stupidity over the airwaves.
Quote from: TristramEvans;792848Im worried, as usual, about moms. As a group they have the potential to cause the most harm.
The producers are betting on the outrage brigade for millions of dollars in free publicity. The shock-value of Hatred is notable, but I don't see it drawing the level of attention they hope it will.
Quote from: Spinachcat;792880Anti-censorship is the only real stance if we want to live in an open and free society, but it isn't an easy stance.
For freedom of speech to mean anything, those who believe in freedom must defend the right for other people to produce, sell and enjoy entertainment that you may not enjoy, nor would you choose to produce or sell.
That includes the KKK and Naambla. While as a society, we should curtail the actions of both groups, but for freedom of speech to mean anything, we must defend the right of the KKK and Naambla to express their views, regardless of how distasteful.
I agree with you on that 100%.
Yeah, this game looks to be in exceptionally poor taste, but I think Snowman's right. This trailer will make the rounds, the Outrage Brigade will do their thing and there will be a lot of sound and fury for a while until the next Bad Wrong Thing comes along.
Within the hobby, meanwhile, it'll have no real impact as most folks will look at it and say "no thanks" then move on and talk about the games we are interested in.
Quote from: The Butcher;792758That's like saying you're not a fan of RPGs because FATAL exists.
Point taken, but even you agree that it is in very bad taste.
Of course I am right. A few years ago some asshat made a school shooting game through modding half-life 2. Same outrage, but within a week everyone forgot about. People moved on and that game is a failure that everyone forgot about. Which proves that gamers as a whole are not blood thirsty assholes that people think they are.
Quote from: jeff37923;792961Point taken, but even you agree that it is in very bad taste.
Indeed! The FATAL comparison was deliberate.
Let me expand upon my annoyance a bit.
The artistry for the game Hatred looks good to me, the cutscenes do show that care was taken in crafting them. However, that same talent could have been applied to a game in which the action was much less personal and thus less offensive (and more commercially viable). You can still have the main character bloodily killing things, but making it about an armed nihilistic sociopath out to kill innocents strikes a chord amoungst people because it seems all too possible thanks to a corrupt hypersensitive news media. Have him kill orcs or zombies or anal-probing aliens instead so that a preferred intellectual distance is maintained.
Yes, I know that there are SJW shitheads out there who will claim that "orcs are black people", that "zombies are suburbanites", and "anal-probing aliens represent the government". Yet when they do, they tend to discredit themselves in the process.
Personally, I just don't like video games because they are too similar to choose-your-own adventure books, only allowing a set number of responses with few options for innovative Players. You only get true freedom of play with a GM and a tabletop RPG.
(Then why am I here? I was bored and watched the Hatred trailer on youtube. I find it a waste of talent and its premise is just plain fucked up. So I felt like saying something about it.)
Liked it better when it was called Postal twenty years ago.
Meh, some rescreening, and it'd make an awesome Punisher game.
I don't have any problems with the gore (well, beyond the fact my kids won't be playing this game! I will!), but I just don't see anyone getting ramped up to play a psycho mass murderer. Even GTA and Hitman have more sympathetic protagonists.
Anyone remember Postal, Manhunter or the "No Russian" mission? This game isn't new, but it is honest. Strip away every shred of possible good reason to slaughter innocent people and just show the stupidly obscene levels of violence and death in modern video games for what it is, murder porn. Nothing to hide behind, not a speck of PC involved, just video game murder for the sake of video game murder.
Misogyny
Anti-social video game violence
Domestic terrorism
Anti-political correctness
Anti-video game industry
Anti-Hollywood
Anti-censorship
Reverse of any of the above
Pick your pet cause and run with it, because this game will fit your narrative.
Interestingly, the game is in third person.
Quote from: JonWake;792978Liked it better when it was called Postal twenty years ago.
It is kinda funny to see the same reactions again. At least postal was supposed to involve demons taunting the player who had actually lost his mind, according to the devs, not that anyone figured that out.
Other than that... it's what people do anyway when given a consequence free world involving lots of weapons and combat mechanics. It's no worse than anything rated M out there now.
Quote from: CRKrueger;793007Anyone remember Postal, Manhunter or the "No Russian" mission? This game isn't new, but it is honest. Strip away every shred of possible good reason to slaughter innocent people and just show the stupidly obscene levels of violence and death in modern video games for what it is, murder porn. Nothing to hide behind, not a speck of PC involved, just video game murder for the sake of video game murder.
Oddly, this actually makes the game more interesting to me as a mental exercise. I still don't have any desire to play it, but it kind of speaks to the power, even some degree of necessity of a narrative framework in which the PC is a relateable protagonist who has reasons for doing what s/he is doing. They needn't necessarily be altruistic or even terribly good reasons, just ones that make sense in whatever context the game is taking place in.
Take that away and you're left with Psycho Simulator 2014 and no one wanting to play it because most gamers aren't sociopaths.
Quote from: CRKrueger;793007Interestingly, the game is in third person.
Good point!
Quote from: CRKrueger;793007Anyone remember Postal, Manhunter or the "No Russian" mission? This game isn't new, but it is honest. Strip away every shred of possible good reason to slaughter innocent people and just show the stupidly obscene levels of violence and death in modern video games for what it is, murder porn. Nothing to hide behind, not a speck of PC involved, just video game murder for the sake of video game murder.
Or Hotline Miami. Or SUPERHOT (Super. Hot. Super. Hot. Etc.)... Or Spec Ops : The Line... Or Bioshock... But those games actually do something with their premise (Even if it is just saying "hey so this is a bit of an odd hobby, isn't it?"), have opposing forces (if you're just killing people who don't fight back, it's just a reskinned Cookie Clicker), and tend to have really refined game mechanics (Hotline Miami's methods of desensitising you through the visuals, sound and pace, Spec Ops' deliberately boring gunplay).
Even Saint's Row says something interesting, in how it assumes the PC is just the same sort of psycho that players tend to be in open-world games, and runs with it.
This game just sounds like a shit controversy generator.
"Not on our store", says Valve (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/16/hatred-removed-from-steam/).
This isn't really comparable to GamerGateGate, though - there was less actual game here (As opposed to just killing for the sake of it), and Valve do apparently have explicit content rules that this would have failed on.
Game will likely be purchasable in many other locations, if you're really into this sort of thing.
I was actually brought to this forum by this game. I made a post in RPG.net's thread on it calling out all the people for comparing the dev to neo-nazis and talking about how banning Hatred would give GG ammunition. I was banned immediately and came here.
Honestly, I'm mildly interested. It'll be a nice rest from games that hand out "ends justify the means" bullshit that gives me a clear (so clear, that it's transparent) pass to commit mass murder. Personally, I find preachy self righteous murderers to be more annoying characters than outright insane people. I'll probably pick it up, give it a day or two and then move on to something else. It may be nothing but GTA minus everything but the violence, but that also means it'll be pretty hard to fuck up.
And judging by the pics and trailer it looks decently polished.
You can tell here who actually played original Postal, and who's just drawing from their degree in Stuff Guy In The Pub Told Me.
Because if you did, you'd remember that it's actually a bloody hard game. Partially because of asinine controls, but on most of the maps I played (all 3 of them, I never got past the parade stage), on 2 there were more cops than civilians.
There's an absence of opposition shown in the trailer, but if you pause for a moment, you visibly see people dressed in cops' uniforms, and I'm betting dollars to peanuts they will shoot at you in normal game. And of course they showcase the brutal fatalities, because the game's obviously going after the gore genre audiences.
It's not a game I'll play (for the same reason I don't watch Saw films - gore alone doesn't do it for me), but if someone's into a relaxing evening of spilling guts, I'd much prefer them to do that in confines of their homes, rather than going out on the street with same intent.
And yes, let's face it - there are plenty of games and films with just as flimsy excuses to show buckets of gore. I'd definitely not hold anything against someone who plays this.
Quote from: CRKrueger;793007Anyone remember Postal, Manhunter or the "No Russian" mission? This game isn't new, but it is honest. Strip away every shred of possible good reason to slaughter innocent people and just show the stupidly obscene levels of violence and death in modern video games for what it is, murder porn. Nothing to hide behind, not a speck of PC involved, just video game murder for the sake of video game murder.
It was never a case of "modern", or rather - it always was there. There were brutal arcade games (Chiller), there were games much more brutal on home PCs (I remember playing Blood when I was like, 8 I think, under supervision of an adult no less as it took time during IT lessons. I was scared shitless of it, but it still gave unparalleled cutting-limbs-off engine), except the graphics were worse so it didn't stand out as much because they were vomiting pixel blood.
Quote from: Novastar;792708You will need to confirm your age, to watch the Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrX7G-1xPLs)
...holy shit. :eek:
What the fuck is this shit? It's like Jack Thompson's "murder simulator" actually got made.
Even the fucking Punisher limits himself to criminals. That's what makes him an anti-hero you can follow. This seems like "Mass Murderer: The Game!"...
:jaw-dropping:
Ever play Postal? Same premise, more or less, though more tongue in cheek. I actually own it, and got bored pretty fast once the novelty of the shock wore off.
I'll pass. As someone who cuts people open for a living, context means a lot to me. ;)
You the know the fact that Hatred got kick off of steam doesn't bold well video game players as a whole. Not to mention it is hypocriticial of Valve to ban the game when they slave simulators in their store.
So Valve your telling me your fine with a game where you get to load a large population of black people into a wooden boat so they can be sold off for slavery, but a game about a mass murderer is just too far? Really?
I am agnostic, but for Christ's sake Valve. Your getting just as bad as OBS when it came to the gamergate card game made by GRIM.
Edit: If anyone wants to know what in the hell I am talking about here is a link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlMVzSvLZJw) to EventStatus. Just skip to 8:15 to right to the Hatred bit.
Quote from: PinkRobedReaper;804754I was actually brought to this forum by this game. I made a post in RPG.net's thread on it calling out all the people for comparing the dev to neo-nazis and talking about how banning Hatred would give GG ammunition. I was banned immediately and came here.
Quote from: Nathan'el Aed OphanEthnic cleansing is about specifically targeting an ethnicity; 'Hatred' is about indiscriminate slaughter of the innocent. So no, it's not ethnic cleansing.
That's wonderful. That's a fantastic sentence. Guys, we can put the pitchforks down; it's not ethnic cleansing, it's just indiscriminate slaughter, so it's okay. Everyone go home and crack open a cold one. You can be proud to tell your wife and kids what you did at work today.
Jolly good.Quote from: Rincewind1;804757It was never a case of "modern", or rather - it always was there. There were brutal arcade games (Chiller), there were games much more brutal on home PCs (I remember playing Blood when I was like, 8 I think, under supervision of an adult no less as it took time during IT lessons. I was scared shitless of it, but it still gave unparalleled cutting-limbs-off engine), except the graphics were worse so it didn't stand out as much because they were vomiting pixel blood.
Did you guys get the same "red pixels aaaargh" scare that went through the west during the mid-90's?
I remember owning Postal for a while. I tried it (I think I bought it just to try and upset my parents; it failed, they didn't give a shit). I thought it was rubbish, so traded it in. Never played Postal 2.
I'm anti-censorship.
I feel more compelled to worry about AAA companies stuck in a loop of 'of course we keep putting out white male power fantasies because we can't waste money risking on other stuff that nobody wants, and we know this because everyone only puts out white male power fantasies, and by the way you should only like white male power fantasies.'
Indie stuff? Don't care, it's not an infrastructure problem.
Granted, I don't want porn, violence, or whatever in a storefront my kids might see, but if people want Vore simulators they can buy discretely, go nuts.
Quote from: Snowman0147;804792I am agnostic, but for Christ's sake Valve. Your getting just as bad as OBS when it came to the gamergate card game made by GRIM.
FYI, I don't think this is Valve's support forum. Try Valve's mail page (http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php). Email Gabe Newell himself!
If it's that sucktastic, it will sink itself in short order. Let it go on the shelf and be judged by its audience.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;804806If it's that sucktastic, it will sink itself in short order. Let it go on the shelf and be judged by its audience.
It will be for sale, just not through Steam.
Unless you're suggesting that Valve should be
made to sell it, or something?
Quote from: Ladybird;804807It will be for sale, just not through Steam.
Unless you're suggesting that Valve should be made to sell it, or something?
No, but if you have a service where your users tell you what they want to see and you pull #7 on the list, you should have more of an excuse then "as murder porn that doesn't hide the.fact it's murder porn, it makes fun of all the other disguised murder porn games we sell" or "our political stance only accepts murder porn from AAA publishers until we reach the next stage of social engineering" or whatever.
Quote from: Ladybird;804807It will be for sale, just not through Steam.
Oh don't give me this garbage. Valve basicly owns 90% of that digital download market and the rest of its competitors only own 10%. It so bad that even if you download some games from other sites you still need steam to run it. Valve might as well say it has a monopoly because the phrase, "Steam or bust," is pretty true.
This is from a person who buys his games from GOG.com.
Valve and OBS, murderporn and Gamergate...
I dunno, I'm not crazy about forcing retailers to sell anything that they're not down with.
From a business perspective, if I had to guess, I'd say carrying controversial material is taking a risk, and there should be enough of a trade-off between the negative press and the sales.
In both instances (OBS with the Gamergate card game and Valve/Steam with Hatred), to be blunt, both games look like they suck donkey ass. IMHO, YMMV, etc. I could see both sellers rejecting the respective games because the meagre profit wouldn't really offset the potential bad publicity. Low risk, maybe, but even lower profit? Them's the breaks.
Dictatorial control of business to prevent dictatorial control of business seems to be par for the course from certain quarters.
And...it's back on Steam.
Yep. Gabe step in himself and fix the problem. Now Hatred is back in and most likely will pass the green light.
Quote from: Ladybird;804798Never played Postal 2.
Completely different game than the original... thankfully. Sucked at the original. Postal 2 isn't about having gone insane, it's a game that tries to drive you nuts or makes the world go insane around you if you try to act normal. Also allows for tactical obscenity. It's utterly tasteless, rather fun and getting a new expansion next year because of sales on steam. The less said about Postal 3 the better, there's an achievement for peeing on a copy of Postal 3 now in Postal 2. About all that needs to be said.
If you want an open world shooter/exploration game with a hint of insanity and a massive dose of stupid destruction, Postal 2 is worth the 3 bucks or less it is on sale without question. I've been considering giving it out as a holiday gift this year.
That said, I'm still lost as to how they freak out over Hatred when Postal's been up there for a year now. Right now my house hold is betting that Hatred is going to be eurojenk Postal.
Yeah interesting that this game got banned (for a while) while other games like Postal, Hitman and Grand Theft Auto (the latter of which got banned in Walmart in some countries) were A-OK.
I'm not passing judgment on anything political or social here, just saying that I'd rather these companies (like OBS) be consistent, is all.
I might give Postal 2 a look, then. Sounds like I'd enjoy it.
Quote from: Necrozius;805064Yeah interesting that this game got banned (for a while) while other games like Postal, Hitman and Grand Theft Auto (the latter of which got banned in Walmart in some countries) were A-OK.
Wasn't banned, was just removed from Greenlight. Is now back on Greenlight, as we all know, but that still doesn't mean Valve are going to give it a store slot - good Greenlight rankings are just a guide to Valve as to what to look at.
That said, GabeN has stated before that he's unhappy with the way Greenlight works at the moment, and wants the store to be more open, so we'll see what happens next.
The distinction between hatred and the other "murder sim" games, like Hotline Miami or Diablo or whatever, is probably
context. Hotline Miami is a fundamentally vile game (Play it, though, it's brilliant, best swordfights ever), but it has an opposing force, it's not just a killing ground, and it doesn't really glorify the PC's actions (It does reward the player, though).
Quote from: MrHurst;805046That said, I'm still lost as to how they freak out over Hatred when Postal's been up there for a year now. Right now my house hold is betting that Hatred is going to be eurojenk Postal.
That's my suspicion as well.
Quote from: Ladybird;804798Did you guys get the same "red pixels aaaargh" scare that went through the west during the mid-90's?
I remember owning Postal for a while. I tried it (I think I bought it just to try and upset my parents; it failed, they didn't give a shit). I thought it was rubbish, so traded it in. Never played Postal 2.
I'm a bad person to ask that, because in the mid 90s I was 3 - 4 years old, heh. But I suspect a version of it went here - Church influence is strong here, and fighting the newest trend amongst youths as SATAN666 is a popular activity of more looney priests, whether it is manga conventions (I might spite animescum but come on) or Hello Kitty. So yeah, I'm willing to bet dollars to nuts there was some outcry from the pulpit against video games, though with some lag probably, as priests had first to discover the existence of such.