Quote from: JeremyR;751498You mean people on the left.

Nazis = National Socialist Worker's Party. They were very, very left, at least compared to everyone but the Soviets.

I'd really like to see a well-sourced article detailing this, because even nazis 101 tell you that the left-wing revolutionary strasserites got wiped out in 1934.

Quote from: JeremyR;751498You mean people on the left.

Nazis = National Socialist Worker's Party. They were very, very left, at least compared to everyone but the Soviets.

And much of the opposition to Blacks in the 1960s was actually from Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Connor

It's really amazing how history gets re-written. Republicans free the slaves, keep the same policies for 100 years, yet somehow they are depicted as racists, while the actual racist party is now the champion, because they hand out free phones...

Wow, that's some of the dumbest, most ignorant bullshit I've seen outside CNN commentary for a while.

1) The NSDAP was extreme right. It was never a socialist party, even when Drexler ran it. Hitler himself praises it for not being left-wing and for the socialist not meaning what it usually means.

2) Yep, the Democrats were the party of racists until national Democratic Presidents and northern Democrats kept supporting civil rights. The southern Democrats started jumping ship to the Republicans as far back as the 1950s, and it really solidified with Nixon's Southern Strategy, which was an attempt to appeal to seize the middle ground between the Democratic left and the remnants of the Democratic right. Until the early 200s, you still had people like Virgil Goode running as Democrats, then independents, before switching to Republican.

You know what? Forget it. Read a book sometime. I suggest "Hubris" and "Nemesis" by Sir Ian Kershaw when it comes to Hitler and the NSDAP, and "The Politics of Rage" and "Roads to Dominion" by...I can't remember the name, maybe Diamond, I think?

Quote from: Zeea;751507You know what? Forget it. Read a book sometime. I suggest "Hubris" and "Nemesis" by Sir Ian Kershaw when it comes to Hitler and the NSDAP,

Good recommendations, I am using those for my own thesis work right now.

Quote from: JeremyR;751498You mean people on the left.

Nazis = National Socialist Worker's Party. They were very, very left, at least compared to everyone but the Soviets.

And much of the opposition to Blacks in the 1960s was actually from Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Connor

It's really amazing how history gets re-written. Republicans free the slaves, keep the same policies for 100 years, yet somehow they are depicted as racists, while the actual racist party is now the champion, because they hand out free phones...

Eh, I think most of the people persecuting blacks in 1960s America were basically conservative reactionaries, and not ideological. They didn't feel themselves on the 'right side of history', which is a big attraction of modern SJW activism - as Orwell said, getting to be the guy with the boot stamping on the face of your enemies is a big thrill for a lot of people.

The Nazis/NSDP were ideological radicals and (somewhat tangentially) related to modern SJWs, so I'd agree with you more there.

Quote from: Kemper Boyd;751509Good recommendations, I am using those for my own thesis work right now.

Kershaw's one of my favorites because he doesn't really spread a lot of the more ludicrous speculation and because he knows how to write clearly. By academic standards, he's got one of the less boring writing styles, and he doesn't ramble.

Quote from: GRIM;751151See, now that's more like a valid criticism. Given the, better, contextual knowledge that the quotes etc are largely meant to take the piss out of people who hold those views and that the game as a whole is targeted on SJW tumblrists, does that change your view at all?

Not really.

For example, making up jokes based on real mental illnesses just seems crass, whereas if you really wanted to poke fun at the way people discuss these things in internet culture you could junk cards like Depressed/Bipolar/Autistic/etc. and replace them with "Self-Diagnosed With A Fashionable Disorder".

After all, it's not people who actually have those conditions which are the problem, and some tumblr and other online communities are really helpful support groups for those people. At the same time, people who latch onto those diagnoses because they're fashionable excuses for being rude (as I have seen people do with Asperger's) are a great example of internet users talking like they want to help out a marginalised group but actually hurting them by trying to piggyback on their issues for cool points.

If you want to satirise tumblr people who take this stuff too far, make the cards about the behaviours you object to, not the people they claim to be standing up for.

Nazi Germany was both left and right, if you apply rigid political concepts based on how people were sitting at Estates General 200 years ago. Seeing how nowadays there are conservative libertarians (lol), the very least that's needed is a Cartesian system.


I do gotta give GRIM his due, that he certainly brings circus around with him.

Quote from: S'mon;751510They didn't feel themselves on the 'right side of history', which is a big attraction of modern SJW activism - as Orwell said, getting to be the guy with the boot stamping on the face of your enemies is a big thrill for a lot of people.

It is quite a shame that sometimes, the revolution is nothing but old crimes packaged in new lies.

Quote from: JeremyR;751498You mean people on the left.

Nazis = National Socialist Worker's Party. They were very, very left, at least compared to everyone but the Soviets.

And much of the opposition to Blacks in the 1960s was actually from Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Connor

It's really amazing how history gets re-written. Republicans free the slaves, keep the same policies for 100 years, yet somehow they are depicted as racists, while the actual racist party is now the champion, because they hand out free phones...

The Nazis weren't left-wing, they were clearly right-wing.  The opposition to the blacks in the '60s came from Democrats because the Dixiecrats controlled the Democratic party machines in the South in those days and because of the leftover baggage from the fact that the Republicans were the party of Reconstruction a century earlier, and it goes to show you just how "Democrat" the Dixiecrats were that they promptly dropped everything and became Republicans the minute the left pushed for desegregation.  And the Republican party didn't "free the slaves," but the Lincoln wing of the party would fit most comfortably on the Democratic side today, focused as they were on laborer rights and the like.

Just because these things use certain names does not mean there are not significant complexities at work.

Quote from: Warthur;751517Not really.

For example, making up jokes based on real mental illnesses just seems crass, whereas if you really wanted to poke fun at the way people discuss these things in internet culture you could junk cards like Depressed/Bipolar/Autistic/etc. and replace them with "Self-Diagnosed With A Fashionable Disorder".

After all, it's not people who actually have those conditions which are the problem, and some tumblr and other online communities are really helpful support groups for those people. At the same time, people who latch onto those diagnoses because they're fashionable excuses for being rude (as I have seen people do with Asperger's) are a great example of internet users talking like they want to help out a marginalised group but actually hurting them by trying to piggyback on their issues for cool points.

If you want to satirise tumblr people who take this stuff too far, make the cards about the behaviours you object to, not the people they claim to be standing up for.

IMO it wouldn't really have worked then, it would have been too overwrought.

Quote from: JeremyR;751498You mean people on the left.

Nazis = National Socialist Worker's Party. They were very, very left, at least compared to everyone but the Soviets.

And much of the opposition to Blacks in the 1960s was actually from Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Connor

It's really amazing how history gets re-written. Republicans free the slaves, keep the same policies for 100 years, yet somehow they are depicted as racists, while the actual racist party is now the champion, because they hand out free phones...

The Nazi party comprised left-wing elements as well as right-wing but Hitler came to power through the support of right-wing conservatives -  the middle classes , the peasants and agricultural workers who switched their vote from the right wing DNVP to the Nazi party.

Agree on Republicans and Democrats but I was talking about the KKK which is anti-communist , anti-immigration and white nationalist -  which suggests right wing to me.

Quote from: JeremyR;751498You mean people on the left.

Nazis = National Socialist Worker's Party. They were very, very left, at least compared to everyone but the Soviets.

And much of the opposition to Blacks in the 1960s was actually from Democrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_Connor

It's really amazing how history gets re-written. Republicans free the slaves, keep the same policies for 100 years, yet somehow they are depicted as racists, while the actual racist party is now the champion, because they hand out free phones...

Well, this thread's officially jumped the shark.  Congrats on going lower than the purple thread.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;751525The Nazis weren't left-wing, they were clearly right-wing.  The opposition to the blacks in the '60s came from Democrats because the Dixiecrats controlled the Democratic party machines in the South in those days and because of the leftover baggage from the fact that the Republicans were the party of Reconstruction a century earlier, and it goes to show you just how "Democrat" the Dixiecrats were that they promptly dropped everything and became Republicans the minute the left pushed for desegregation.  And the Republican party didn't "free the slaves," but the Lincoln wing of the party would fit most comfortably on the Democratic side today, focused as they were on laborer rights and the like.

Just because these things use certain names does not mean there are not significant complexities at work.

Yes , it was a complex situation thats why I didn't mention party names. Really I meant the KKK and it's supporters.

Quote from: Simon Owen;751528The Nazi party comprised left-wing elements as well as right-wing but Hitler came to power through the support of right-wing conservatives -  the middle classes , the peasants and agricultural workers who switched their vote from the right wing DNVP to the Nazi party.

Agree on Republicans and Democrats but I was talking about the KKK which is anti-communist , anti-immigration and white nationalist -  which suggests right wing to me.

Broadly speaking (non-Marxist) socialism is about equality before the law, the prevention/elimination of domineering and controlling elites (hereditary, plutocratic etc) and the state acting as a guarantor of rights and administrator of laws.

Nazism on the other hand greatly expanded the state, set up elites on basis of race, class, money, corporatised the state and was based on the inequality between the ubermensch and untermensch.

Despite the name, Nazism was definitively right wing, but an authoritarian and extreme right wing. Even Tea Partiers and UKIPpers for their many nastinesses are not comparable to the Nazis any more than Democrats or Labour are comparable to Stalinism. It's ridiculous hyperbole and it's unnecessary in order to critique either.

Quote from: Zeea;751486Yes, exactly. I have absolutely no reason to support being able to get married and not getting beaten up for going to the bathroom except wanting to control people, and my master plan is to persecute people in the vital field of "one forum about a niche hobby." Really, you sound paranoid and ridiculous. This is what happens in an echo chamber.

That's not what I meant and you know it. Trans , lesbian and gay people should have equal rights. It's just that a lot of unpleasant people with their own agendas have jumped on the bandwagon and are using it to run people over with.

Quote from: GRIM;751531Broadly speaking (non-Marxist) socialism is about equality before the law, the prevention/elimination of domineering and controlling elites (hereditary, plutocratic etc) and the state acting as a guarantor of rights and administrator of laws.

Nazism on the other hand greatly expanded the state, set up elites on basis of race, class, money, corporatised the state and was based on the inequality between the ubermensch and untermensch.

Despite the name, Nazism was definitively right wing, but an authoritarian and extreme right wing. Even Tea Partiers and UKIPpers for their many nastinesses are not comparable to the Nazis any more than Democrats or Labour are comparable to Stalinism. It's ridiculous hyperbole and it's unnecessary in order to critique either.

The people who voted for the National Socialists were all right wingers because they thought it was the best party to defeat Marxism and to deal with the prevalence of Judaism in German society. Many of them had previously voted for the extreme right-wing DVNP which saw it's support slump in the early 1930s.

Most academics would consider the Nazis to be a far right authoritarian party. However the Nazi party did have left-wing aspects to it in that it wanted to nationalise industry and provide free education for gifted children.