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Other Games, Development, & Campaigns => Other Games => Topic started by: crkrueger on April 04, 2010, 08:21:38 PM

Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: crkrueger on April 04, 2010, 08:21:38 PM
We all know GW loves to threaten legal action, and I usually hear that they kind of have to from the way the UK handles copyright law.  Basically "enforce it or lose it".  Yet I don't see the Rebellion group, Mongoose Publishing, etc going apeshit with lawsuits left and right.

So what's the deal in UK, is GW justified, are they just assholes, or a little bit of both?
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: StormBringer on April 05, 2010, 12:35:13 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;371790We all know GW loves to threaten legal action, and I usually hear that they kind of have to from the way the UK handles copyright law.  Basically "enforce it or lose it".  Yet I don't see the Rebellion group, Mongoose Publishing, etc going apeshit with lawsuits left and right.

So what's the deal in UK, is GW justified, are they just assholes, or a little bit of both?
Honestly, I think the people who are targeted tend to be the ones over-reacting.  Without getting into details, they sent me what amounted to a cease-and-desist over my e-zine.  It was very polite, they spelled out their case without using excessive legalese.  When I told them I wanted to check it out before I made a reply one way or the other, they were understandably concerned about a timeline, but were gracious in allowing me the time to do so.  I checked it out, lo and behold, they held the copyright (although they hadn't had a magazine of any kind in a decade or something).  I apologized for my lack of due diligence, changed the e-zine to comply with their request, provided them with the links to the Citadel of Chaos forums so they could make sure I wasn't violating their marks in any way there, they promptly responded that I wasn't, I thanked them for their courtesy, they thanked me for the compliance, and we both went on our way.

In short, I am the exact kind of person that has not the legal experience or clout to raise a stink about it, and I am sure they have the finances to get my whole domain in a court of law, had they decided to pursue it.  But they treated me with the utmost professionalism and courtesy during the whole matter.  I am more inclined to believe bad behaviour is the exception rather than good behaviour.  Especially in my situation, being the smallest of small fish in the pond.

Copyright law is generally the same everywhere, if you don't aggressively defend it, you run a high risk of losing it, so there is that element that they don't exactly have a choice in the matter.  But after my experience with them, I had to re-think some of the claims I have read that GW is a horrible corporate bully that seemingly takes delight in causing problems.
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: Ghost Whistler on April 07, 2010, 04:14:52 AM
Without getting into details kinda makes this hard to discuss. There may well be times when people have clearly breached reasonable copyright laws, and there maybe times when GW have gone way overboard. But what I hear most is people who run websites that basically support and promote the warhammer ip's getting told to cease and desist for no apparent good reason. This more than anything else generates the wrong kind of publicity and thus is counter productive. They do seem to be to be an over zealous, over protective company and i don't believe UK copyright laws are that flimsy. In fact they may well be about to get a whole lot tougher.
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: MarkVonLewis on June 28, 2010, 03:17:28 PM
Hm, it's difficult at best to objectively judge them on this, as there have been situations where they had a legitimate reason to defend their IP, and other times where they flew off the damn handle not unlike Joe Pesci in Goodfellas.

 It all comes down on the individual situations as to whether or not they are being belligerent or acting reasonably.

 Of course, they way their prices are heading certainly paints them as slightly insidious. I want one of those new Russ kits, but at $50? My funds are stretched as it is, although the new kit does have quite a bit in it in regards to making several variants.
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: noisms on June 28, 2010, 04:58:53 PM
I'm not sure about the way our copyright law works having anything to do with it, but as far as I'm concerned GW have the right to behave however they choose so long as they're acting within the law. Some companies are lax about this sort of thing and some are very zealous, but this should be seen as a strategic choice rather than a moral or legal issue.

Also, don't forget that Mongoose and Rebellion are small fry compared to GW. GW is a plc and they have a duty to their shareholders to maximise their profits.
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: Spinachcat on June 28, 2010, 07:32:06 PM
Mongoose doesn't own the IP behind RQ or Trav.  They just have the license to print RPGs based on the IPs.  Thus, they don't need to go apeshit.

GW dances in the video game business.   Which means Big Money.  And big money means lots of skeevy fuckers who will use any opportunity to fuck over GW.  

While it is understandable paranoia due to how the market operates, the unfortunate side effect is that completely innocent well-meaning fans get the legal smackdown designed to stomp the real fuckers.
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: Lawbag on June 29, 2010, 12:20:52 PM
What annoys me specifically about GW is that they issues C&D letters to fans who are keeping their dead games alive. Its not as if GW is actively supporting their old games.
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: StormBringer on June 29, 2010, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Lawbag;390731What annoys me specifically about GW is that they issues C&D letters to fans who are keeping their dead games alive. Its not as if GW is actively supporting their old games.
But that falls under copyright laws.  If you don't defend your copyright, it lapses.  Or at the very least, it makes it extremely difficult to enforce it at a later time.  As I mentioned earlier, they haven't published a magazine in over a decade, but if they didn't tell me to stop using the name, they would lose the right to defend it in the future.

Look, I am all about keeping old games going, but they don't owe you or any fan a damn thing.  They especially don't owe you the rights to their trademarks.
Title: Games Workshop and UK Litigation
Post by: noisms on June 29, 2010, 04:52:26 PM
Quote from: Lawbag;390731What annoys me specifically about GW is that they issues C&D letters to fans who are keeping their dead games alive. Its not as if GW is actively supporting their old games.

They might decide to revive those old games in ten years. They might decide to revive them tomorrow. They absolutely have the right to ensure that they can do so hassle-free.