Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;574211It sounds like Jedi characters for GURPS would need to start with more points than general public characters would start with.

Or you know, they don't. Because contrary to the wannabe kungfu wankery of the prequels, none of the Jedi we see on screen in the real trilogy are that much more powerful than their peers, just with a different set of skills.

It was only in the EU Tales of the Jedi and the prequel periods that they started turning Jedi into walking fucking demigods like something out of fucking Exalted.

Jedi need no more special compensation than any other spell caster or psionicist character within the rules, it's just entitled Wushu-worshipping swine like Kiero that want their fucking special snowflake Jedi.  No one I ever played SWD6 with in real life ever had a problem with it.

If you're going to toss weak insults around like a child, the least you could do is get up to date.

Both OT and PT centre on a protagonist who becomes a Jedi during its course and neither are the most powerful person in the story. Any SW RPG needs to cover adequately cover this aspect.

Assuming Jedi are more powerful than everyone else is a foundation for only the poorest SW stories IMO.

Quote from: J Arcane;574101No one cares, Kiero.  Do you even play games?

For the last couple of years, sure.

Quote from: chaosvoyager;574015Imagination needs to be inspired, and that's one of the key purposes of using a game system in the first place.

I have to disagree with this. The purpose of a game system is to simulate actions and results in a particular setting with various degrees of abstraction. Imagination is what makes a mechanical system more than just a system. My imagination is inspired by books, movies, games, comics, and real life. I don't mind dice doing that, as long as they're not locking me into a no choice situation.

QuoteIf the game results are not giving players a seed of an idea to go with, then it's just as bad as giving them a blank piece of paper and asking them to draw something. And I far prefer the inspiration to be easily inferred from the dice rather than look up some stupid table.

The result given by the system varies. Binary systems are the least inspirational being just success or failure. I prefer systems with degrees of success myself, but that's a personal preference. Just like your preference is inspiration inferred from the dice rather than looking up a table.

Is either wrong? No, it's just our preferences. Mine is lighter rules, and the thought of multiple custom dice doesn't fit that. Maybe I'm wrong and the system is great - don't know. I'll wait for reviews and feedback before plopping down cash. For the record, I've never played WFRP 3e, the lots 'o bits thing turned me off.
C"est la vie.

EDIT: Is getting bashed by Chaosvoyager a RPGsite right of passage, do I get an achievement or anything?

Quote from: Kiero;574233If you can sell your players on that, more power to you. Good luck either way.

The same would be for GURPS characters that have magic powers.  They would be given more points to spend than those characters that are just everyday joes.  The SW rules for GURPS that I'm looking at say to replace all magic with The Force.  Your players in your group didn't like the magic user characters having more points to spend than theirs?

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;574463Your players in your group didn't like the magic user characters having more points to spend than theirs?

The whole point of point-buy systems, is to give everybody an equal amount of points.
They're supposed to be the original "balanced" RPG.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;574463The same would be for GURPS characters that have magic powers.  They would be given more points to spend than those characters that are just everyday joes.  The SW rules for GURPS that I'm looking at say to replace all magic with The Force.  Your players in your group didn't like the magic user characters having more points to spend than theirs?

I haven't played GURPS in over a decade. I'm talking more about the general principle of giving players unequal resources in a point-buy game (which can be a hard sell - especially if magic gives a PC disproportionate power-flexibility).

Quote from: Novastar;574467The whole point of point-buy systems, is to give everybody an equal amount of points.
They're supposed to be the original "balanced" RPG.

The point of points is to limit what a player's character can do.  Some GMs don't want their players to buy every skill in the book and afford to use every advantage and disadvantage that's listed.

If a GM decides that every player gets 250 points to spend, it's not for game balance and it's not for player balance.  It's because the GM wants to limit his or her players to spending 250 points to create their character.

If, out of the bunch of players, one is planning on using magic (or The Force) on top of what their character can normally do, I as a GM would give that player another 150 - 200 points to spend so they can have the type of magic they're going for.  Why not?  Those points would just be for magic and not mixed in with the points their character has assigned already.

Quote from: Kiero;574487I haven't played GURPS in over a decade. I'm talking more about the general principle of giving players unequal resources in a point-buy game (which can be a hard sell - especially if magic gives a PC disproportionate power-flexibility).

GURPS is the only point-swapping RPG I've played.  But any RPG that uses a points system for generating characters will have those concerns.

All I have to watch out for as a GM is the one player that wants to create a Jean Grey character if I give them too many points to spend.  I run a sandbox game.  But a Jean Grey or a Molecule Man or heck, even a Beyonder character, can perform cold reboots on my universes.

Quote from: stouty;574380EDIT: Is getting bashed by Chaosvoyager a RPGsite right of passage, do I get an achievement or anything?

PM me your address, I'll send you a copy of the Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game as a prize.

(Damn, I hope I don't have to ship this internationally....)

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;574488The point of points is to limit what a player's character can do.  Some GMs don't want their players to buy every skill in the book and afford to use every advantage and disadvantage that's listed.

If a GM decides that every player gets 250 points to spend, it's not for game balance and it's not for player balance.  It's because the GM wants to limit his or her players to spending 250 points to create their character.

If, out of the bunch of players, one is planning on using magic (or The Force) on top of what their character can normally do, I as a GM would give that player another 150 - 200 points to spend so they can have the type of magic they're going for.  Why not?  Those points would just be for magic and not mixed in with the points their character has assigned already.

That's an...interesting interpretation of what point-buy games are about. The much more commonly accepted wisdom is that equal points should equal equivalent impact on the game and spotlight time. It's not a limitation on the players, it's a mechanical enforcement of balance.

Sorry, but I can't see anyone who's playing a non-Jedi thinking it's fair that the Jedi gets to be as good as them at mundane things as well as having the Force as a force multiplier. Especially when they could find lots of things to do with the same extra 100-150 points.

Which is the fundamental issue in the way some implementations of the Force in RPGs are done. There's little evidence in the prequels that being a capable Jedi prevents you being a good pilot or or mechanic or diplomat or doctor or whatever else. In terms of having to divert time and attention away from those things. Though that's partly because Jedi of the time don't have meaningful social lives.

I don't follow the SW prequels.  I heard Christopher Lee and Yoda were jumping around like crickets on speed.  And Obi and Ani were on a lava ride of some kind.  And 5-year-olds standing arms length from each other in a daycare school, each brandishing a lightsaber while blindfolded.  A bit over the top for Jedi behavior.

I've never understood that interpretation of point buy. It completely depends on what type of game I'm running. If I'm running victims & heroes, or children & adults, or humans & super/preternatural beings there's going to be asymmetry in point allocation. But then I would also state up front that the game's pitch is X and asymmetrical PCs is part of the starting premise.

I do understand if you find yourself adhering to that sort of play due to player whining. Playing with your friends is important and not every group can handle each and every game premise. So from my standpoint point-buy equality isn't part of the system, just a norm for certain tables to avoid group tension. For your tables well, that's how you see it, but it is inapplicable to mine.

Quote from: Opaopajr;574513I've never understood that interpretation of point buy. It completely depends on what type of game I'm running. If I'm running victims & heroes, or children & adults, or humans & super/preternatural beings there's going to be asymmetry in point allocation. But then I would also state up front that the game's pitch is X and asymmetrical PCs is part of the starting premise.

Like players as cops/detectives in an agency building of some kind will probably be very good at doing crime research and record/database searching, while one of their co-workers now has some superpower they didn't have before.  The player with the doctor character is probably trying to find an explanation for their power.  And the player with the new power is trying to fit into their daily routine at work still, helping their partners track down those that exposed him/her to the drug or radiation or whatever that mutated that character.

But for the younger crowd, I've seen equal point-buy assigned just so the players can't start killing eachother.  They're not interested in any story.  Just clobbering.  It could be from the Thing vs the Hulk comics.  Thankfully, GURPS combat is leathal.  So fights end rather quick.  I do not like fight scenes involving dodging lasers and lightsabers from all directions all day.  Or Jedi that can simply absorb/eat laser fire.

Quote from: Opaopajr;574513I do understand if you find yourself adhering to that sort of play due to player whining. Playing with your friends is important and not every group can handle each and every game premise. So from my standpoint point-buy equality isn't part of the system, just a norm for certain tables to avoid group tension. For your tables well, that's how you see it, but it is inapplicable to mine.

I've seen games where the players whine about wanting the same points for everyone.  So everyone gets the same points to start with.  Then they whine because one of the players has min/maxed their character using stuff from the books that do not really make sense to have in the game's setting.  Such players are going to create problems for the other players no matter what the GM tries to control.