Dungeon World: is this an RPG?

soviet · July 17, 2013, 05:59:45 AM

Quote from: Justin Alexander;671512Ah. A retreat into mindless pedantry in an effort to dodge the question. Duly noted. Lemme know when you're willing to take part in an adult conversation.

You're conflating two entirely different terms to build a massive strawman you can argue with and I'm the one playing wordgames when I point it out? What?

Rincewind1 · July 17, 2013, 11:46:17 AM

There are no adult conversations to be held on RPGsite, only BRUTAL FIGHTS AND BITTER TEARS FOR THE TEAR GOD.

Bill · July 18, 2013, 01:24:21 PM

Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch?

StormBringer · July 19, 2013, 12:26:03 AM

Quote from: Bill;671981Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch?

Watch it. :nono:

Noclue · July 19, 2013, 06:41:34 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;670893and later calls Immersion, the central goal of the player in RPGs, nothing more than an "impossible thing before breakfast". He suggests that you can't actually immerse (contrary to the experiences of any number of gamers and human beings in general in other capacities) and that if you could, it would be a kind of mental illness.

Can we at least tar and feather him with the horse he rode in on? The "Impossible Thing Before Breakfast" is the notion that the GM has absolute control of the Story and the Player has absolute control of their character.

I don't see any reference to immersion being mental illness on the googles, outside of your repeated accusations. But, I could be wrong there. The most I can find is his assertion that the term Immersion means different things to different people.

TristramEvans · July 19, 2013, 07:49:28 PM

Yeah, I read through all the GMs essays and found none of the things Pundit claims are in there, but whatever it's his war Ill take his word for it. Either way I find GNS quite useless in regards to actually playing RPGs and Ive no desire to become an Edwards apologist

RPGPundit · July 20, 2013, 01:46:20 PM

Quote from: Noclue;672579Can we at least tar and feather him with the horse he rode in on? The "Impossible Thing Before Breakfast" is the notion that the GM has absolute control of the Story and the Player has absolute control of their character.

I don't see any reference to immersion being mental illness on the googles, outside of your repeated accusations. But, I could be wrong there. The most I can find is his assertion that the term Immersion means different things to different people.

I might have remembered that wrong; it doesn't matter. He had clearly stated that Immersion was not possible, the Forge had a huge long history of intentionally opposing immersion as useless as best and evil at worst, and no one has ever disputed that until this thread. I'm not going to re-read the Complete Nauseating Works of Ron Edwards to show you the exact spot where he fucking said these things, I read it, and he did.

RPGPundit

Justin Alexander · July 20, 2013, 02:55:07 PM

Quote from: Noclue;672579Can we at least tar and feather him with the horse he rode in on? The "Impossible Thing Before Breakfast" is the notion that the GM has absolute control of the Story and the Player has absolute control of their character.

Those are just the code words used by the Story Game World Order to disguise their genocidal plans for all the RPG players.

Archangel Fascist · July 21, 2013, 11:55:33 PM

In Dungeon World, you take on the role of a character. You adventure, slay dragons, level up, and find treasure, which seems like an RPG to me. Now, the mechanics in the game are not a traditional RPG by any stretch. The game is focused on action/adventure within a pseudo-D&D world, and many of the duties traditionally given to the GM are given over to players as choices.

That being said, it looks like a nifty game, but not something I'm really interested in. I like my games to be slightly more traditional.

Omnifray · July 22, 2013, 01:55:31 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;672780I might have remembered that wrong; it doesn't matter. He had clearly stated that Immersion was not possible, the Forge had a huge long history of intentionally opposing immersion as useless as best and evil at worst, and no one has ever disputed that until this thread. I'm not going to re-read the Complete Nauseating Works of Ron Edwards to show you the exact spot where he fucking said these things, I read it, and he did.

RPGPundit

One of Wrong Edwards' posts was in this thread (reply #3). He wasn't so much saying that immersion was impossible as saying that it was a term without significant meaning or value ("a synonym for whatever the speaker values during role-playing"), and adding the jibe that people who cared about it were driven by "defensive fear". His exhortation "[v]ive la difference" is a call for the death of the term immersion - as if to say, "let's all use that term to mean whatever we each want to, and not try to pretend it might have some actual meaning". This is in a way worse than saying that someone's gaming fun is impossible - it denies them even the vocabulary to discuss the matter!

Elsewhere Wrong Edwards listed 4 separate definitions of immersion, one of which (#2) is fairly close to how most of us tend to use the term.

Archangel Fascist · July 22, 2013, 04:02:49 PM

Ron Edwards sounds like a nutter.

Omnifray · July 22, 2013, 04:22:12 PM

Quote from: Archangel Fascist;673405Wrong Edwards sounds like a nutter.

Fixed the spelling for you in that quote where bolded and underlined ;-)

The man is apparently an expert on bat penises.

Rincewind1 · July 22, 2013, 07:06:57 PM

Immersion is about as impossible as a decent realistic AND abstract RPG mechanic. So you should understand Edwards pretty well Pundit. You've both attempted to redefine a common and simple term to fit your agenda.

Brad · July 22, 2013, 10:12:46 PM

Quote from: Omnifray;673414Fixed the spelling for you in that quote where bolded and underlined ;-)

The man is apparently an expert on bat penises.

I read the links in your sig and must ask: WTF is going on here?

Omnifray · July 23, 2013, 06:25:13 AM

Quote from: Brad;673494I read the links in your sig and must ask: WTF is going on here?

In what sense?

You're asking about Wrong Edwards, about my personal views of and attitude towards Wrong Edwards or about my immersion-focused game-in-playtest Soul's Calling? Or just about the bizarreness of my psychology generally?

Dungeon World: is this an RPG?

TristramEvans