Quote from: Melan;584109"Corvo, that guard is a bad badguy! You can go up the stairs even if he tells you it is not allowed!" and then, stairs time!

The problem is the amount of games that have trained players to see rails and stick to them - especially this gen, with it's excess of set-piece linear shooters. And with the increase in costs this gen, developers can't afford to ignore the braindead Call of W+M1 market.

But given that the called-out solutions won't be optimal, and explorey players will be rewarded both in-game and by getting to do what they like to do anyway (ie, explore); I don't think the problem is the game that merely offers a Path for Idiots, instead of entirely being a Path for Idiots.

Quote from: Imperator;584282I understand your desperation and, fortunately, there are many developers that can create different games thanks to platforms like Steam, for example

Yes, of course - new missions for Thief are still coming out regularly, there is The Dark Mod, the newly released Mark of the Ninja may get a PC version... but Dishonored is the game that has felt the closest to a spiritual sequel to Thief yet. It has been worked on by some of the best level builders the Thief community has produced. Which is why it matters to me, and Bioshock: Infinite doesn't so much.

I bet the Dark Mod will be an insult to social justice. I mean, just look at the name! How could that be any good?

:hatsoff:

Quote from: Melan;584109Games should not be about frustrating, soul-grinding work, they should be about rewarding, fun gameplay that doesn't put stressful things like choices on gamers' shoulders.

You know, I wonder sometimes if people realize games and work/learning have a lot in common.

Maybe if we make every would-be designer read Raph Koster's A Theory of Fun for Game Design.  It's only 256 pages, and in layman's speak.

That said, I wonder how much of this sort of thing is a case of "you reap what you sow" because a lot of designers take more pride in their B-movie plots/characters than in their actual design-work and so people have now come to expect a game to tell them what to do to get to the next page of the story.

So this is now out. I was under the impression that it was a sandbox affair. But from the reviews it looks like Bioshock with added ragdoll rubberiness. 9 missions (one review said a 6 hour playthrough) and no open world (though you can do the missions how you want, which always sounds way more impressive than it actually is). Sounds a bit lame now. £40 for a limited experience isn't my cup of tea. The idea of replaying missions over and over is never really born out in practice. Severe diminishing returns.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;590528So this is now out. I was under the impression that it was a sandbox affair. But from the reviews it looks like Bioshock with added ragdoll rubberiness. 9 missions (one review said a 6 hour playthrough) and no open world (though you can do the missions how you want, which always sounds way more impressive than it actually is). Sounds a bit lame now. £40 for a limited experience isn't my cup of tea. The idea of replaying missions over and over is never really born out in practice. Severe diminishing returns.

Oh, shut up.

It will be a crap short game if that's what you want, or an absorbing, long game if you want that.

That review is predicated on ad hom bollocks.

This seems a more realistic review to me.

I'm notinterested in the usual review hysterics from people that don't pay for the games they play. £40 is a lot of money. Console games are grotesequely overpriced and for that kind of money I really expect more than 9 missions, no matter how many times you want to play them (which is entirely subjective).

It was never, ever advertised as an open world game, though, but as a spiritual successor to Thief and Deus Ex - which were also not open world games. So I don't get where that came from.

Most of the time when a reviewer says a game is 9 hours long they base it on an estimated guess from how much of it they played before they had to write the review(most game reviews arent based on the completed game) which usually means add a couple or more hours onto that for people who either dont intend to rush through the game but enjoy the setting and environment oir more for those who just arent that good at games but stikll really want to finish them.

Also alot of reviewers rate a game down for stupid things like no mulitplayer or co-op mode which is why i try to avoid reviews that give numerical ratings these days and why i avoid 90% of console related review mags or sites these days

I'm sure the gameplay is great.

But the price of entry is a major factor and so unlike reviewers don't pay for their copies I have to take that into account which is where professional reviews fail for me.

I am not going to spoil myself with reviews, but TTLG, which is notoriously picky about the right way to play stealth games, seems to like it so far. How much of that is due to the new game smell and the "our boys worked on it!" factor is hard to say, but Bioshock and even DX: IW got a way rougher reception on release.

Im gonna rent it from lovefilm soon so i'll let you know my opinions on it once both myself and my brother have finished playing it...its certainly seems close enough to the classic stealthy games.

My impressions (haven't read any reviews or in-depth discussion yet):

I have completed the game, and this has really felt like the most Looking Glass-feeling game since LGS was actually around. Both the weird, Lewis Carrol-influenced dark magic-meets-technology world and the gameplay felt right. They took different approaches, and it is a modern title, but to my surprise, the game is a lot less consolised than anticipated. There are always nudges to guide you along, and if you leave them on, a whole lot of guidance like objective markers, but the experience is very pleasantly non-linear both in navigating the huge and open levels and in the way you can approach the challenges and situations you are presented with in a large number of ways. This is tricky to accomplish since many games are just designed with an a-b-c-d list of possibilities, which is technically right but doesn't represent real freedom (DX: Human Resources had traces of this). Here, you really can use the environment to your advantage by creating distractions or combining your powers to bypass obstacles.

Interestingly, it is very hard to stay stealthy even after a decade of Thief / Deus Ex experience. This is partly due to the lack of a lightgem-style stealth gauge (although the alert markers and the sound cue that plays if you are spotted is an interesting replacement), and partly, as Fidcal writes, a lack of absolutely good hiding places. As I got closer to the finale, I was starting to feel my approach was probably flawed in that I relied too much on striking out from static hiding places, and I should have focused more on flitting from place to place using powers like teleportation, possession and time slowing (which I did not have). As it was, I went mostly for assassination, which is way easier, although still challenging against multiple opponents (especially with some AI respawning in certain areas), and got a suitably dark finale. That's a great point about the game, and I'll replay it some time with more stealth.

I must say the story was among the most enthralling and intelligent of the last years, and I can't even recall which was the last commercial game which got it so right. This is a very well-realised world, with influences from Verne to French comics to Victor Hugo (although it's set in a "British" city, the game feels French); with some of the most opulent, as well as the most squalid environments to date. The plague-stricken alleys and barricaded houses are super-creepy. It is larger than life, it is predictable (although I could see a large plot twist coming, it ended up being a different one than I anticipated), and it does not over-explain everything, which preserves the mystery (

Spoiler

does the heart belong to the late empress? what is the Outsider's goal beyond being a Lucifer figure who likes messing with people? what about those whales?

). It is actually a fairly long game, too; not as long as Thief, but way longer than most titles nowadays, and it looks very replayable. Even though I went rooftopping a lot (which feels very satisfying), I still missed a good deal of stuff.

It is hard to say how they could make a sequel, and they probably shouldn't, but I'd happily buy a Dishonored Gold edition or a game in the same style with a different environment and story.

Just to say I just finished the game, and found it pretty good (to my surprise, as I thought it would be just another retarded console port).

I think its stronger point is the world it creates. Its such a live and nicely thought out world, really above the average we see in games nowadays.

At the same time, I thought the story was kind of weak. The characters in special are shallow and cliché (except Daud, that one is awesome). It didnt grab me by the collar and made me finish the game, breathlessly, in one or two tense sits, as the old immersion-shooters classics (Thief, System Shock 1 and 2, Deus Ex) did.

Another thing I think its worth noting is that the game dont try to excel at any single gameplay aspect - its stealth isnt better than Thief or Chaos theory, its "level openess" isnt better than Hitman´s, its choice & consequence isnt better than Deus Ex 1 (neither its plot), its atmosphere isnt tense as System Shock, etc... BUT it tries to mesh all those aspects into a very cohesive and fun package. To the point that, in the end, I think Ive had so much fun with this game overall as I had with any of those classics. (I recommend disabling all interface options, for maximum immersion, btw )

I cant wait to see the DLC where you play with Daud, by the way.

P.S: my group even started a "mystic-steampunk" tabletop game after playing Dishonored (using Ghost Lines) and we´re having a blast.

Quote from: silva;639216Another thing I think its worth noting is that the game dont try to excel at any single gameplay aspect - its stealth isnt better than Thief or Chaos theory, its "level openess" isnt better than Hitman´s, its choice & consequence isnt better than Deus Ex 1 (neither its plot), its atmosphere isnt tense as System Shock, etc... BUT it tries to mesh all those aspects into a very cohesive and fun package. To the point that, in the end, I think Ive had so much fun with this game overall as I had with any of those classics. (I recommend disabling all interface options, for maximum immersion, btw)

That's a lot like how the original Deus Ex works, BTW: it was never as good at stealth as Thief, it was never as good at shooting as a good FPS, and it never had as much interaction as an adventure game... but put it all in one package, and it's just a fun, complex game.