Isnt it ironic that emergent gameplay seems so low on CRPGs ?

The games ive played with stronger emergency lately were Crusader Kings 2, Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Stalker, Mount & Blade and King of Dragon Pass.

No RPGs.

Isnt this weird? I mean, rpgs are the games that most praise "alive" game worlds and roleplaying. Shouldnt they be the "vanguard" of emergency ?

It's interesting that you list Stalker and Mount and Blade(both awesome games). Both of those have elements of sandbox RPGs without any attempt at storytelling.  The player gets dropped into a world, and off you go.

The cRPGs that have little emergent gameplay are the ones that focus on mimicking a movie or literary medium. Basically a branched plot structure.

Even Dragon Pass, with its procedurally generated events is a sandbox type game.

Also, these three games in particular are focused on immersing you into a world in motion, not a story.

Quote from: silva;620163Isnt it ironic that emergent gameplay seems so low on CRPGs ?

The games ive played with stronger emergency lately were Crusader Kings 2, Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Stalker, Mount & Blade and King of Dragon Pass.

No RPGs.

Isnt this weird? I mean, rpgs are the games that most praise "alive" game worlds and roleplaying. Shouldnt they be the "vanguard" of emergency ?

Except (Arguably) Minecraft, those are all sandbox RPG's as we would recognize them, to various degrees; you're dumped into the world, to get on with shit. Have fun, or don't, whatever. Oh, sure, they get dumped into the simulator or action of whatever category, but you're roleplaying in them.

The distinction is probably down to how computer games have taken "RPG" to mean everything from "has some numbers in it" through what are essentially very pretty choose-your-own-adventure books (I love Alpha Protocol, for example, and it's the game that has got closest to feeling like a real tabletop RPG, but it doesn't even try to conceal being a plot railroad). They've undefined the term into meaninglessness.

Part of that, though, is that the medium started with very limited, straightforward games ("Fight the aliens! Until you die, then, do it again!"), contrasted to RPG's ("Here's a dungeon, what do you do next?"); the increase of freedom has been slow, but, it's there. Video game players still generally seem to prefer structure, rather than complete freedom - and it's generally easier to program that structure (And far easier to compute...), than to create a truly interactive world simulator. You've got somewhere to stop, without falling into Dwarf Fortress-esque sim madness.

There's more role playing in GTA : San Andreas than in the entire Final Fantasy series put together.

Emergent gameplay should ideally be based on other players playing the game.

Developers messing with story nodes, randomly generated quest chains, etc is limited in its usefulness or game appeal.

Look at Starcraft's custom mas (a.k.a. Arcade) - it's very successful emergent gameplay created by other players.

I wish you could include something like that in RPGs. Imagine if you are given your own area and you come up with everything from weird NPCs to an avalanche.

Quote from: silva;620163Isnt it ironic that emergent gameplay seems so low on CRPGs ?

The games ive played with stronger emergency lately were Crusader Kings 2, Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, Stalker, Mount & Blade and King of Dragon Pass.

No RPGs.

Isnt this weird? I mean, rpgs are the games that most praise "alive" game worlds and roleplaying. Shouldnt they be the "vanguard" of emergency ?

Emergent gameplay is tough.  It's an ideal, but you still have to meld it with an actual design, or it can get out of hand.

STALKER is a perfect example.  I love the game to bits, but it's still a buggy, unfinished mess in places because the creators were pushing so hard for a truly emergent world and got swallowed up by their own game.

It's the whole "never forget the player" thing.  Sure, you could make an "alive" world, but how does that make play more engaging and fun (if it doesn't hurt the fun)?  I think as developers start to master their craft and new technology opens up more possibilities, the toughest thing is going to be melding those gameplay considerations with what tech will actually let you do.