Quote from: Necrozius;788049Putting aside that whole other issue (which is worthy of discussing on its own), WAS there any validity to the accusations of nepotism and corruption?

There is actual proof of collusion, on which stories they would cover and which ones they would not, AND active intimidation by EIC's to other members, in a Google group GamingJournosPro (or some such, Breitbart London has the actual article).

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/18/The-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed

The Escapist is one of the few websites that hasn't shut down discussion (both for and against) Gamergate, and was just recently shut down in a massive DDoS raid.

Many pro-GamerGate people are getting doxxed in a large scale campaign, and unlike Zoe and Anita, can provide screenshots to prove it! (cheap shot, if you are the target of harassment, you should go to the police, not the internet).

Quote from: Novastar;788067There is actual proof of collusion, on which stories they would cover and which ones they would not, AND active intimidation by EIC's to other members, in a Google group GamingJournosPro (or some such, Breitbart London has the actual article).

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/18/The-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed

The Escapist is one of the few websites that hasn't shut down discussion (both for and against) Gamergate, and was just recently shut down in a massive DDoS raid.

Many pro-GamerGate people are getting doxxed in a large scale campaign, and unlike Zoe and Anita, can provide screenshots to prove it! (cheap shot, if you are the target of harassment, you should go to the police, not the internet).

Unless there is a link to said screen shots, I'm going to treat it with the same skepticism as I do the claims of the other side, personally.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;788069Unless there is a link to said screen shots, I'm going to treat it with the same skepticism as I do the claims of the other side, personally.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite

This one apparently has some screenshots of emails from the mailing list. Not unfakeable, but you know, it is what it is.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;788070http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite

This one apparently has some screenshots of emails from the mailing list. Not unfakeable, but you know, it is what it is.

I meant of the doxxing and harassment. You always hear about someone getting harassed of doxxed or sent threatening phone calls, but it's hardly ever backed up by the SJW crowd.

Hell, one of the claims in ConsultancyGate (I weep to think this is the legacy Nixon left) was that someone had tracked down the person contact info for their father, somehow learned/divined it on a fucking crystal ball that he was currently hospitalized, figured out which hospital it was, and managed to call his room specifically, to threaten the father for the actions of the son.

I would have an easier time believing the Hari Krishna are in cahoots with bronys in shriner hats and 9/11 was the first step in their plan to invade Mars.

Sarkeesian's claimed this, Quinn, Fish and others, but never seem to have a screenshot. Hell, one of the claimed the FBI was involved and that 'arrests would be made'.

Sure.

Quote from: Lynn;788057In many kinds of vertical market news that involve development and manufacturing, you have a similar situation - even with print magazines. Subscriptions yield little revenue as compared to advertising. Some magazines try to put up a firewall between editorial and advertising, while others find a least harmful collusion method.

The difference is in the specifics of the video game market and those attracted to it - driven by constant change, youth, and big money - and maybe a little less cutthroat than music and other types of entertainment.

To be fair, I think games journalism is "utterly corrupt" is a bit of an overstatement.  In this day and age there's a lot of different outlets, a lot more before when it was limited to a few print magazines.

But the problem with any sort of journalism in this field is two-fold.  First of all, games are Entertainment and not "serious business".  Most gaming coverage from all of these Internet sites are about new games, reviews, etc.  There's not a lot of serious coverage on the business side of things, because most of the audience doesn't really care about that stuff.  So at best, the reporting is akin to reporting like Entertainment Tonight, The Insider, or Gossip magazines.  Anything that would require deeper probing would most likely be something that would be covered by mainstream media.  The except would be actual coverage of the industry like trade magazines do, but there's a lot less of that and it's audience is usually the gaming professionals.

The second one is this type of journalism isn't really funded because of the nosedive of people actually willing to pay for quality content.  It's the same thing that happened to the newspapers in part, but it's worse for this specialized industry, because game enthusiasts are very unlikely to pay for any sort of quality journalism where the funding also helps setup the structure for supporting these types of things.  So, the reason why advertising revenue is important.  But that's really partly the fault of the audience IMO.  You want "unbiased" or "objective" reporting, but you aren't willing to fund the people to support it?  Consumer Reports for instance doesn't take any ad revenue to keep themselves ad free so the reviews don't get compromised--but how much of the audience will be willing to both pay to help fund getting review copies "off the shelf", and how much of the audience would be willing to wait a few months to read a review of the game after the release date.

Honestly this whole brouhaha seems a little strange to me.   Ultimately it comes down to the real problem with any media coverage--everybody doesn't just want to read opinions, they want their own opinions validated and the other opinions demonized.  That's a growing problem lately with culture in particular.

Here's how I think the internet fucks people up.

In any given social group, you have your loud, shouty people who will kick and scream at any perception of deviance from their cultural norm, and the vast majority of people who basically just roll with the punches and don't worry about it too much.

The internet has ensured that the loudest voices are the ones that get heard, because there aren't any gatekeepers. The more outrageous the voice, the longer it gets play. Gawker basically makes it's money off of finding the most outrageous people they can and pointing at them like a freak show.  

This leads to two mutually exclusive views of the world: One, that the culture of whatever is made up of mouth breathing catpissmen and brogrammers, and Two, that the world is made up of overprivileged hipsters who are making millions off of mocking the people they're taking money from.

Neither is true, but you can't convince anyone on either side of that. The minority becomes the representative of the majority, the tribal monkey-mind goes into overdrive, and the flame wars keep going while everyone else gets up, goes to work and gets on with their lives.

Every once in a while these flame wars spill over into Real Life, with threats and lies and the like, and that just serves to reinforce the story that there is a Great Culture War, and not a bunch of bored people bickering on the internet.

Quote from: JRT;788077To be fair, I think games journalism is "utterly corrupt" is a bit of an overstatement.  In this day and age there's a lot of different outlets, a lot more before when it was limited to a few print magazines.

This. I've been writing about computer games for decades, and have used press credentials to get into E3 a dozen or so times...never even heard of such a mailing list, and never had an editor write me saying there was a certain slant I was supposed to give a game.

But, apparently such a list existed...I don't see it nearly as devastating as Climategate, and it's clear there was a least a small cabal here.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;788069Unless there is a link to said screen shots, I'm going to treat it with the same skepticism as I do the claims of the other side, personally.

EDIT: Not actually Greg Costikyan in picture, though the quote is accurate.
And Hey! An edit to correct for inaccuracies! I'm already more professional than Kotaku writers!

Quote from: Warboss Squee;788073Sarkeesian's claimed this, Quinn, Fish and others, but never seem to have a screenshot. Hell, one of the claimed the FBI was involved and that 'arrests would be made'.

Sure.

Actually, I do believe the FBI have investigated former threats on Sarkeesian, and those investigations are on-going.

As to Quinn, it's been proven that the information supposedly doxxed leads to dead links and fake accounts. Take that as you will.

EDIT: and some new threats!

Quote from: JRT;788077... isn't really funded because of the nosedive of people actually willing to pay for quality content.

Yes, so true and applicable for much that is readable online or downloadable - not willing to pay, but willing to download illegally.

Well, how about that.

I need to get on twitter to take Devin Faraci up on his challenge. I'd eat him alive.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;788121Well, how about that.

I need to get on twitter to take Devin Faraci up on his challenge. I'd eat him alive.

Trust me, Greg Costikyan's challenge rankles me, too.

Less because of who's he's defending (that's his decision), but because of the sheer idiocy of his challenge. Fedora. Longcoat. Fingerless gloves. Incorrect posture. Incorrect grip on sword. NO SHOES.

And perhaps worst of all, if I remember my duel protocols, showing bared steel in a challenge is an invitation to a death match.

Idiot Internet Hipster.

Quote from: Novastar;788172Trust me, Greg Costikyan's challenge rankles me, too.

Less because of who's he's defending (that's his decision), but because of the sheer idiocy of his challenge. Fedora. Longcoat. Fingerless gloves. Incorrect posture. Incorrect grip on sword. NO SHOES.

And perhaps worst of all, if I remember my duel protocols, showing bared steel in a challenge is an invitation to a death match.

Idiot Internet Hipster.

When I saw that pic and read his post, I literally laughed out loud.  Talk about making sure you hit every negative geek stereotype you can.  I swear I could almost smell the catpiss stank from my monitor LOL

That has to be one of the most pathetic and funny things I've read in a long, long while.

Someone should tell him than in the real world (as opposed the fantasy game world in which he thinks he lives), if he threatens someone with a weapon, he's either going to get shot, or end up making nice with Bucho in jail, or both.

A challenge for combat to "defend the honor". ...bwaahahahaha   SMH

Quote from: Sacrosanct;788182When I saw that pic and read his post, I literally laughed out loud.  Talk about making sure you hit every negative geek stereotype you can.  I swear I could almost smell the catpiss stank from my monitor LOL

That has to be one of the most pathetic and funny things I've read in a long, long while.

Someone should tell him than in the real world (as opposed the fantasy game world in which he thinks he lives), if he threatens someone with a weapon, he's either going to get shot, or end up making nice with Bucho in jail, or both.

A challenge for combat to "defend the honor". ...bwaahahahaha   SMH

A katana and a trenchcoat in a doublewide are dangerous things. - Lord Hobie