It has a hefty price tag, but this game looks amazing: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/conan. Rich in detail and tactical, yet quick to play. You also get enough quality sculpted S&S minis for any purpose thanks to a Reapers mini style expansion by stretch goal. Honestly, the haul for US$135 is huge (warning: the picture is massive) and there is still 19 days to go:
Spoiler
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/003/157/816/517b03edef1c4d382447d64834626ac1_large.png)
They have some real powerhouses of the Euro board gaming world involved too, such as Bruno Cathala (Shadows of Camelot, Cyclades), Antoine Bauza (7wonders, Takenoko) and Ludovic Maublanc (Ca$h n’ Gun$, Cyclades).
Of course I want to play this game, but I would be in anyway for the figures.
It is seriously a one stop shop for S&S miniatures.
Quote from: Skywalker;811671It is seriously a one stop shop for S&S miniatures.
Yeah with 19 days to go...
Amount Needed: $80,000
Amount Pledged: $1,042,702
So will probably end up being a MILLION more then they asked for. Not bad.
I also like how they're not bringing the stupid with "Solid Iridium Boxed Collector's Edition" for $10,000 that will include exclusive miniatures never seen again because the mold will be broken and the sculptor will be shot, his ashes mixed into the resin.
Woohoo! Balthus and Slasher!
Quote from: CRKrueger;811707Woohoo! Balthus and Slasher!
Ha! That's what I said. :)
That looks absolutely awesome. Sadly, I don't like backing kickstarters. But I will probably buy it later.
Its unfortunate Red Sonja isnt a part of the standard Conanverse now that the license isnt with Marvel anymore
Has anyone playtested the game?
I'd love to hear about gameplay?
Any good links?
The gameplay looks great. There are three Youtube links on the KS page showing a rules break down and a full game. There is also a link to a prototype of the hero rules, with overlord and print and play PDFs to come. There was also an indepth review by Undead Viking on YouTube and Tom Vasel is doing one shortly.
Honestly, they have gone to great extents on their main KS page to show exactly what the game is like. It's like Descent but with Euro style resource management rather than the text/card heavy FFG equivalent.
Quote from: MadHatter;813260That looks absolutely awesome. Sadly, I don't like backing kickstarters. But I will probably buy it later.
Understood. Getting almost double the goodness for the same price convinced me to jump into the KS over retail, even with the risk. Though I will some of the add-ons (the non-KS exclusive ones) for later too.
Quote from: TristramEvans;813262Its unfortunate Red Sonja isnt a part of the standard Conanverse now that the license isnt with Marvel anymore
With Valeria and Belit taking such prominence and multiple versions, her design space is already kind of filled. Savage Belit looks to be a decent RS proxy.
Slobber, slobber, drool...always been a big Conan fan (a coupla years back I managed to score the first dozen Savage Swords in great shape, for $11 a pop!), so had plunk down my theoretical money.
I am in like a slim jim!
The gameplay looks fast and fun. Am I right that's there is 185 minis in the King box now? Wow.
I am hoping we get 200 minis before the end!!
Quote from: Spinachcat;813687The gameplay looks fast and fun. Am I right that's there is 185 minis in the King box now? Wow.
TBH I have lost track :D
I have been stalking this thing for a couple of weeks. The price is steep for me right now but I would never need to buy another mini again. The game maps look good also for dual use with frpg.
May have to sell a kidney.
These minis don't require assembly, do they?
Quote from: 3rik;813735These minis don't require assembly, do they?
Nope. All pre-assembled.
Quote from: Skywalker;813773Nope. All pre-assembled.
And it seems they even look good unpainted! (I'm not a minis painter.)
Tempting.... though I may not ever actually get to play it, considering my cumbersome rules internalisation. Not really into war or skirmish games either, though I do use meeples on sketched floorplans to depict tactical positioning of player characters. It does seem like an attractive price tag for so many cool looking minis.
Considering it would be just my wife and I playing it most of the time, the main thing turning me off of the actual game is that it isn't co-op.
Someon care to sell or unsell me?
Quote from: 3rik;813816Someon care to sell or unsell me?
Not really a sell or unsell, but from what I have seen of the gameplay is that it is a dungeon crawler through Euro-game lens. Dungeon crawlers tend to either be lacking in tactical play (HeroQuest) or cumbersome (Descent). However, Conan achieves both by creating a central resource mechanic which is easy to use, visual in nature, yet with lots of options. The use of icons and images over text is very cool too. Its the kind of vibe that I have only really seen in the likes of Space Hulk before TBH
For our old crew, Warhammer Quest was our go-to game when we didn't have enough players for our RPG night...which happened too often, or when some dork or two had to work late and we knew in advance we would lose 2 hours of RPG play time. AKA, enough time to run some WHQ.
Conan looks like a good replacement. Also, unlike WHQ, Conan claims to be playable in an hour. These days, its not unusual for people to only have a couple hours on a weeknight which would easily allow us to play a scenario.
My main "sell" for the KS is the KS Box for $135 vs. the Retail Box for $100 is a significant value difference. The KS Box has more than twice the goodies for $35 extra smackers.
Makes you wonder. We have just finished the alpha test run for my Thief board game. Very Easy to Port it to Lankhmar. Just need to get a minis company on board. We are using exisitng minis for soldiers, theives, palace guard, and hte assorted monstrous treasure guardians in the the game.
Hmmm......
Somehow adding optional co-op play might draw in even more people...
OMG! I know what I want for my birthday.
Quote from: 3rik;813858Somehow adding optional co-op play might draw in even more people...
It shouldn't be that hard, you'd just need some way to handle the AI decisions and give the AI a handicap. I'll probably kitbash something together once I see the game up close and personal. Maybe use a system something like MYTH.
Quote from: Doctor Jest;813864It shouldn't be that hard, you'd just need some way to handle the AI decisions and give the AI a handicap. I'll probably kitbash something together once I see the game up close and personal. Maybe use a system something like MYTH.
I think the difficulty with co-op play would be the highly tactical nature of the central gameplay of stamina gems. It would be difficult to codify without making it losing a lot of its bite.
Quote from: Skywalker;813899I think the difficulty with co-op play would be the highly tactical nature of the central gameplay of stamina gems. It would be difficult to codify without making it losing a lot of its bite.
I was watching the full game video earlier and I think that's tricky but surmountable. Whenever I manage to land my mitts on a copy I'll see what I can come up with. I'm sure the other folks at BGG will be working on co-op variants too, so there should be plenty of fertile ground.
Man, this KS just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I have a few add-ons, but I am glad I didn't decide to get absolutely everything.
Quote from: Doctor Jest;813925I was watching the full game video earlier and I think that's tricky but surmountable. Whenever I manage to land my mitts on a copy I'll see what I can come up with. I'm sure the other folks at BGG will be working on co-op variants too, so there should be plenty of fertile ground.
Yeah, I would start with some kind of system for choosing units. Maybe a randomiser weighted to the lower cost items.
Quote from: Skywalker;813966Yeah, I would start with some kind of system for choosing units. Maybe a randomiser weighted to the lower cost items.
I was thinking much the same thing. I have a leaning towards some kind of print-and-play deck, but I really do want to experience in play first.
The key to this one is don't get any add-ons that also have a retail price, they're going to be available later, just get the exclusives.
If you needed to get absolutely everything. I have found there are quite a few add-ons that don't appeal.
Quote from: CRKrueger;814212The key to this one is don't get any add-ons that also have a retail price, they're going to be available later, just get the exclusives.
I think the key to this one is sell your first born child to a magic gnome who will spin your credit card into gold.
Sweet Jesus
$2,235,009
46 hours to go.
177 minis plus 32 furnishings.
This is now the second biggest tabletop board game KS of all time, with only Zombicide Season 3 to beat.
Broke down and pledged for the game after I heard about the new rpg coming this year. Doesn't hurt that my gaming group has gotten back together for D&D and board games.
Quote from: Skywalker;814933This is now the second biggest tabletop board game KS of all time, with only Zombicide Season 3 to beat.
This thing might make more money than the 2011 movie did. :D
10 hours to go!
Buy the $135 King Pledge and go for the Exclusives.
The Add-On boxes are nice, but $5 off retail seems to be the going rate and you can usually do better than that once the actual game hits shelves.
I am getting the Campaign Book because its got a load of additional scenarios that use the King Pledge box, and the scenarios connect into a story which sounds fun.
If the game is as good as it looks, I can see myself buying the Nordheim, Khitai and Stygia boxes eventually.
Given I live in New Zealand, adding the expansions to my pledge actually ends up being a good deal as shipping tapers out (and they will arrive months before retail according to Monolith).
My haul so far is King pledge + 3 expansions + campaign book + sabre-tooth tiger + Baal Pteor + Black Dragons + Valeria/Salome box + Black Ones + Kushite Witch Hunters + Vanir Valkyrie.
Over $3.2 million raised. Congrats.
It looks great and I'm a huge Conan fan but I'm too cheap to spend $100+ on a board game.
Hope they sell a ton of them!
Quote from: Endless Flight;815246It looks great and I'm a huge Conan fan but I'm too cheap to spend $100+ on a board game.
That's fair, though the base set (with all the SGs) was $90 (excl shipping) :)
I have been lean on my board game purchases over the last two years and have never participated in a "nova" KS like Bones before. I really like the Euro style central mechanic mixed with Ameritrash goodness on top.
Once they open up the pledges again for shipping and add-ons, I bet they will get even more money.
Agreed. I will be taking another look at the Exclusives when the pledge manager shows up. I expect they will get +10% more cash which is why they felt comfortable with the big giveaways of the custom box and the iSkelos app.
The Pledge Manager is open!
If you missed the KS, you can jump in now.
https://monolith.pledgemanager.com/projects/conan/
QUESTION!!!!
Which of the Add-Ons and Exclusives do you think are the highest priority??
My guess is the Campaign/Artbook, but what else?
Quote from: Spinachcat;856383The Pledge Manager is open!
If you missed the KS, you can jump in now.
https://monolith.pledgemanager.com/projects/conan/
QUESTION!!!!
Which of the Add-Ons and Exclusives do you think are the highest priority??
My guess is the Campaign/Artbook, but what else?
I'm getting all the exclusives, anything else I'll get later, even if it's a tad costlier later.
I'm "just" getting the main box (that alone is well past $100). I barely have time for board games and have tons of miniatures as it is...but I had to have the Conan game.
I did the math on the Barbarian vs. King and the extra $45 works, especially if you like battles vs. the undead. The 31 minis + extra dice is great, but I agree not mandatory.
I went for the Art book because of the campaign rules + 19 scenarios and I waffled on the Wolves. I'm sure they will offer some alternate sculpt of wolves in the future, but Wolves are the fastest moving creatures and I like having fast attack options.
Quote from: Spinachcat;857504I did the math on the Barbarian vs. King and the extra $45 works, especially if you like battles vs. the undead. The 31 minis + extra dice is great, but I agree not mandatory.
I went for the Art book because of the campaign rules + 19 scenarios and I waffled on the Wolves. I'm sure they will offer some alternate sculpt of wolves in the future, but Wolves are the fastest moving creatures and I like having fast attack options.
Well, hellfire, if you did the math I reckon I can check your work and see if another $45 is in order.
(edit: derp, turns out I already did the math and King pledged)
Here's the math for anyone on the fence!!!
I was originally thinking Barbarian Pledge at $90 because you get so much with the core box + the crazy amount of free bonus from the stretch goals, but $45 for 31 minis (25 undead) is less than $1.50 per mini and allows for large hordes of undead battles.
I've been following some discussions about scenario design and it appears that 5 foes per PC in an adventure isn't unusual.
But the real math swings comes with Thog (big demon) and the 4 heroes (including King Conan). If Monolith is selling 2 heroes + cards now for $20 (the Conan guest artist boxes, aka Brom box) and selling the Demon of the Earth for $10, then the King pledge exclusive is worth $50 you include the undead minions.
The 10 wolves are $15 and 5 Black Guard are $10 so its realistic to assume the 15 skeletons would sell for $20 and 10 mummies for $15, so the undead are worth $35.
And the cherry on top is Monolith is selling dice for $10
So...
4 Heroes = $40
1 Demon = $10
10 Mummies = $15
15 Skeletons = $20
Extra Dice = $10
TOTAL = $95 retail vs $45 for the King Pledge
For me the boardgame is icing, I'm in it for the Hyborian minis.
No question. Especially if you are going to play the new Conan RPG.
Quote from: Spinachcat;857565No question. Especially if you are going to play the new Conan RPG.
Way too much mechanically enforced non-Roleplaying in that "RPG" for me, despite the cool team of content designers they have, but there's always RQ6.
Well, now that the boardgame is apparently reaching Kickstarter backers, the SJWs are already having a go at it. The article also mentions Modiphius' KS for their Conan RPG:
Link: Former Conan Rep Calls Out Hit Board Game's Depiction Of Women | Kotaku Australia (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/11/former-conan-rep-calls-out-hit-board-games-depiction-of-women/)
Quote from: 3rik;931974Well, now that the boardgame is apparently reaching Kickstarter backers, the SJWs are already having a go at it. The article also mentions Modiphius' KS for their Conan RPG:
Link: Former Conan Rep Calls Out Hit Board Game's Depiction Of Women | Kotaku Australia (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/11/former-conan-rep-calls-out-hit-board-games-depiction-of-women/)
Well you are over-reaching here, this is not the latest battleground in the culture wars.
For a start, this was a major issue during the KS campaign itself, and the discussion was actually pretty constructive overall. The designers made a big deal of trying to be true to Howard's designs, but obviously understood that was problematic (see also Lovecraft).
That said, I was surprised to see (topless) nudity in the Monolith artwork (in the gamebook IIRC), even from a French company. I thought the Belit figure was a reasonable compromise, and expected to see that kind of approach repeated elsewhere.
As one of the commenters noted, you don't have to erase this stuff from the 1930s, but you don't have to celebrate it either.
Not expecting a Conan game to about atavistic alpha male physical domination of one's goals is like expecting a family-com not to have a childish, irresponsible father being 'corrected' by his noble, patronizing wife.
The people who kickstarted the game knew exactly what they were getting, and they threw nearly 200 times more money at it than Monarch.
When asked to vote with their wallets, people routinely reject the hectoring of virtue-signalling SJWs (cf. also Chick-Fil-A)
Quote from: daniel_ream;932032The people who kickstarted the game knew exactly what they were getting,
I Kickstarted it, but I definitely don't recall (topless) female nudity in the campaign. Am I wrong?
It's A cup side boob. There's more nudity on network TV and most museums.
Here's the Kotaku moron on parade at her best:
QuoteTo me, she looks like his prize, a reward for his violence with which he can do whatever he wishes - including grab her by the crotch and rape her before she's regained consciousness." She described the scene as "the scene of or before a rape. And you, my friend, are going to take on the role of the rapist."
Of course, its idiot bullshit and her article is full of lies (How shocking! Game journalism full of shit?). Belit isn't the only playable female. There are several in the KS. Belit isn't some weakling designed to serve the male characters. She's a badass pirate queen and a great choice for players who like tactical characters. Wanna play a female hack & slasher? Great, pick the Red Sonja character instead.
But as I've said before, we are going to see MUCH MORE crazy out of SJWs as they die out.
And that's all good because their tears are delicious.
Quote from: Spinachcat;932069Wanna play a female hack & slasher? Great, pick the Red Sonja character instead.
Whoa, whoa, whoa there! That's not Red Sonja, they don't have the licensing!
It's...uh...
Rita Rojo. A completely new and original character. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Quote from: Motorskills;932057Am I wrong?
In so, so many ways.
Quote from: daniel_ream;932104In so, so many ways.
You and my wife have clearly been talking. :D
Quote from: Spinachcat;932069Here's the Kotaku moron on parade at her best:
QuoteTo me, she looks like his prize, a reward for his violence with which he can do whatever he wishes - including grab her by the crotch and rape her before she's regained consciousness." She described the scene as "the scene of or before a rape. And you, my friend, are going to take on the role of the rapist."
IKR What the fuck!
Quote from: Spinachcat;932069But as I've said before, we are going to see MUCH MORE crazy out of SJWs as they die out.
Let's hope hope they are indeed death throes and there will be an end to this level of ridiculousness. I can't believe there's actually people who take this shit seriously.
Quote from: Spinachcat;932069It's A cup side boob. There's more nudity on network TV and most museums.
Here's the Kotaku moron on parade at her best:
Of course, its idiot bullshit and her article is full of lies (How shocking! Game journalism full of shit?). Belit isn't the only playable female. There are several in the KS. Belit isn't some weakling designed to serve the male characters. She's a badass pirate queen and a great choice for players who like tactical characters. Wanna play a female hack & slasher? Great, pick the Red Sonja character instead.
But as I've said before, we are going to see MUCH MORE crazy out of SJWs as they die out.
And that's all good because their tears are delicious.
The
Sit Down and Shut Up review (https://youtu.be/rScrsSUm8Ns) pretty much destroys this argument. The whole 24 min review is useful and
positive, but Monolith's double-standards are called out very effectively around the 12.50 mark.
Meh, the double standards aren't so strong, as the reviewers are little confused about Khitai wizards being dark skinned in the canon.
I'm more concerned about Conan's wizard friend being a D&D wizard instead of a Hyborian wizard in the board game...the guy gets 3 spells, Dimension Door, Fireball, and Mage Armor (different names, but that's what they are). I don't think any of these were cast in any R E Howard novel, much less as trivially as they are in the board game.
The magic in the boardgame has been a concern from the beginning. At best, its more Marvel Conan, but I definitely see the D&D aspects.
Quote from: Motorskills;932583The Sit Down and Shut Up review (https://youtu.be/rScrsSUm8Ns) pretty much destroys this argument.
Those two morons couldn't destroy a quiche, let alone an argument.
Apparently, even the Brits need fainting couches now.
Quote from: Doom;932599I don't think any of these were cast in any R E Howard novel, much less as trivially as they are in the board game.
I don't recall
any human magic being remotely trivial in REH's works.
Quote from: Tod13;932620I don't recall any human magic being remotely trivial in REH's works.
All the magic I can recall in Conan stories (at least the originals) were of the long protracted ritual variety or the magic talisman type.
So, a legitimate question (that is, not rhetorical or snide): a) could you design a Conan boardgame with a source authentic wizard that was playable; b) if not, could you omit all playable wizard types and have it still sell?
Broadly I'm wondering if the D&D tropes are so ingrained in the target market that a truly authentic pre-D&D game is unsellable.
Quote from: daniel_ream;932680So, a legitimate question (that is, not rhetorical or snide): a) could you design a Conan boardgame with a source authentic wizard that was playable; b) if not, could you omit all playable wizard types and have it still sell?
Broadly I'm wondering if the D&D tropes are so ingrained in the target market that a truly authentic pre-D&D game is unsellable.
Absolutely. In the second scenario, the evil wizard has two spells, both of which are Conan-enough for me. One drains a bit of energy (so if cast in REH worlds, the effect could all be attributed to imagination), the other is a weaker magic armor (unlike the good wizard's spell which outright negates the attacks of weaker creatures, the evil version doesn't make the mage invulnerable to anything, just resistant). The evil wizard can also sacrifice himself to summon a demon...not exactly REH, but close enough, and certainly way closer to Hyborian magic than "fireball every round."
Quote from: daniel_ream;932680So, a legitimate question (that is, not rhetorical or snide): a) could you design a Conan boardgame with a source authentic wizard that was playable; b) if not, could you omit all playable wizard types and have it still sell?
Broadly I'm wondering if the D&D tropes are so ingrained in the target market that a truly authentic pre-D&D game is unsellable.
Absolutely. In the second scenario, the evil wizard has two spells, both of which are Conan-enough for me. One drains a bit of energy (so if cast in REH worlds, the effect could all be attributed to imagination), the other is a weaker magic armor (unlike the good wizard's spell which outright negates the attacks of weaker creatures, the evil version doesn't make the mage invulnerable to anything, just resistant). The evil wizard can also sacrifice himself to summon a demon...not exactly REH, but close enough, and certainly way closer to Hyborian magic than "fireball every round."
Ugh, I dashed that off too quickly to be clear: by playable I meant "as a player option", not an NPC or villain.
Quote from: daniel_ream;932680So, a legitimate question (that is, not rhetorical or snide): a) could you design a Conan boardgame with a source authentic wizard that was playable; b) if not, could you omit all playable wizard types and have it still sell?
Broadly I'm wondering if the D&D tropes are so ingrained in the target market that a truly authentic pre-D&D game is unsellable.
Wizards have more hit points and more normal combat skills than D&D magic users.
Slow spell casting for things like sleep.
Prepared transformation spells for "normalish" creatures.
Most combat spells involve pre-summoning and binding demons or other creatures, which are often immune to non-magical weapons.
A very few combat spells like the exploding-on-metal-contact bubbles, which can only be cast 1-3 times and/or require multiple casters.
Dependence on magical items for other, more powerful, skills or for stuff like lightning staves.
Wizardry rots your mind--over dependence can destroy the user's mind.
I think that would work.
Quote from: daniel_ream;932789Ugh, I dashed that off too quickly to be clear: by playable I meant "as a player option", not an NPC or villain.
Well, that I don't know--D&D players are pretty used to magic being very predictable and supremely powerful...the idea of barbarian being able to defeat a wizard is pure laughable in D&D terms.
That said, they could have tried a bit harder. Instead of Mitra's Shield being a 100% guarantee against 2 damage a round (making the wizard invulnerable to most attacks), it should have been a free yellow die (much as Conan gets a free yellow die for defense because of his armor). Instead of blasting out a fireball every round, there could have been a "zone of rage" where everyone rolls an extra attack die, or a "zone of calm" where everyone rolls one less attack die. Instead of teleport, there could have been clairvoyance, to let the mage look into huts (the main use for teleport in the first scenario is to look for the princess). Toss in an "Animal Control" spell that lets the friendly wizard move the snake or wolves a bit, and it could have been a bit more like a Conan battle, instead of fireball, fireball, fireball, teleport, fireball.
Has someone somewhere on the web done a list of all the spells cast in Conan's stories?
That would be a good starting point.
Quote from: Spinachcat;932998Has someone somewhere on the web done a list of all the spells cast in Conan's stories?
That would be a good starting point.
As far as spells cast D&D style, where the wizard just ups and casts something magic, you probably could count them on one hand. About the only time I recall is a hypnosis spell (worked on a soldier, but no dice with Conan's will, of course). Most wizards do their stuff ritual-style. You've got a few demon summons, but it's not something done in a matter of seconds, a few man-apes being controlled to some extent (arguably not magic, but you sure don't see non-sorcerers doing it). Thoth Amon uses a magic ring to cast Animate Object...but that's not quite the same as casting the spell himself. Similarly, a magic crown bestows considerable power to control others. These things were only usable by wizards; it's clear Gygax used R E Howard (along with 8k or so other sources) as influences on how magic should work in D&D.
I've read all the "main" R E Howard (and De Camp) Conan stories three times through at least, and wracking my brain. It's been a few years. A lich cast an Earthquake like spell in a major battle...but it's possible that was set up beforehand (and lich also summoned some sort of minor demon the night before too--two spells in two days, making him a major magical badass). I think there was a druid who was good for counter-magic...many any real experts here?
The only time I remember non-ritual magic in Conan was the Marvel comics. In my recollection, all the magic in the stories was rituals like summonings or mind control. Very NPC stuff.
Quote from: Doom;933014
I've read all the "main" R E Howard (and De Camp) Conan stories three times through at least, and wracking my brain. It's been a few years. A lich cast an Earthquake like spell in a major battle...but it's possible that was set up beforehand (and lich also summoned some sort of minor demon the night before too--two spells in two days, making him a major magical badass). I think there was a druid who was good for counter-magic...many any real experts here?
All the examples in my post above are directly from RE Howard stories.
ETA: I am not an expert though. :-) I just recently read them.
I think a Howardian magic user could work in an RPG. They would typically be more physically competent than D&D wizards for one. If we extrapolate from what is in the stories then you have a magic system that tends to require preparation time for any spell, this would require casters to really think about what spells they want to use as well as the cost of expending resources on them. Demonic summoning and binding would also be an element, one that would have it's potential pitfalls. Enchantment seems to be a thing. Oh and of course they would act as lore masters which could come in all sorts of handy for exploration.
The mechanics are there the problem is a small list of defined effects. Even that isn't really all that great of a pitfall if you stick to some basic guidelines when devising spells, magic is time intensive, most effects are subtle or limited in scope, flash-bang effects are rare, and the gods don't give a rats ass about you so be careful with them.
I'm still unimpressed with the scenarios. The first scenario is unwinnable by the heroes if the Overlord knows what he's doing. The second is unwinnable by the Overlord if the heroes don't go extraordinarily stupid.
The third scenario? The heroes can win in one turn, probably will win in 2 turns, might win in 3 turns...and after that, it's hopeless for them. The system itself just doesn't lend itself to anything resembling strategy beyond the very basics.
I expect that when the Scenario Design App shows up we will see lots of player generated content which may be better. I am concerned with the scenario issues since they supposedly playtested the heck out of it for ages.
Quote from: Doom;932806the idea of barbarian being able to defeat a wizard is pure laughable in D&D terms.
As always, if by D&D, you mean 3e+.
Quote from: Spinachcat;933404I expect that when the Scenario Design App shows up we will see lots of player generated content which may be better. I am concerned with the scenario issues since they supposedly playtested the heck out of it for ages.
The minis came with a game? Is that what all that weird cardboard stuff was for? :D
Quote from: Spinachcat;933404I expect that when the Scenario Design App shows up we will see lots of player generated content which may be better. I am concerned with the scenario issues since they supposedly playtested the heck out of it for ages.
Well, I'm not quite expert, but, for example, in scenario 1, the heroes have to find and rescue the princess, and kill the shaman, and get off the board, in 8 turns.
Now, the princess could be hidden, but for the sake of argument let's just put her right under the giant snake. The snake has 8 hit points, and 3 points of armor.
The rogue, if he puts everything he has into it, will roll 5 dice (4 orange and 1 yellow); mathematically, he'll do a 5 point hit, and armor reduces this by 3. The overlord will burn a die on defense, mathematically reducing damage by another 1.
Conan would likewise swing with all he has, and he'll do a more impressive 7 point hit, mathematically. Again, the overlord might well burn 3 dice on defense, so mathematically another point. Luck could swing this one point either way, but that's about it (we're rolling basically d3s here, lots of them).
The wizard could fireball...but that'll mathematically do 3 points (reduced to 0 by the snake's armor), and it'll hit everyone fighting the snake--there are plenty of other targets that need snuffing.
Now, the overlord can theoretically use 5 dice a turn on defense (and he's only used 4, above), and starts the game with a few extra as well, while the heroes can't do the "full on attack" but maybe three times in the game (and they'd have to rest the previous turn, doing nothing). The snake is going to take 6 turns to kill with average rolls (and with 50 dice being rolled over all those turns, average is going to come up often--I'm giving the heroes far more ability to attack than they actually have), and that's assuming the overlord decides not to put everything he has into defending the snake (he can also spend points on rerolls if he gets unlucky on defense). And, seriously, this is such an obvious move because the Overload doesn't have to kill anyone, just has to survive. He has no reason to ever actually attack, although moving some guys around might be helpful.
The heroes also have to kill the shaman, and he has the same level of armor (another 3 turns, as he has 5 instead of 8 hit points...the heroes will have ot rest at some point). AND they have to drag the princess and the shaman's head off the board.
Figure around 1 turn to get to the snake, at least 1 turn to get to the shaman, and at least 1 turn to get off the board. It could easily be more than this, as there are blocking Picts around.
At the end of turn 8, if the heroes haven't done this, the Overlord wins.
Add up the turns assuming average rolls, and you'll see it's quite unlikely for the heroes to do succeed, and that's with the Overlord telling them exactly where the princess is (under the snake), instead of forcing the heroes to go hut-to-hut looking for her.
The second scenario is even more ridiculously unbalanced, even assuming maximum best rolls won't be good enough. The Overlord has to kill Belit, again in 8 turns, and it takes 3 turns to get to her with even one hostile...she comes with 5 bodyguards, each of which can absorb one attack (and die). and Belit can also defend herself quite well (again, getting 5 dice a turn if need be). If Conan weren't on the board, she might be kill-able...but, he is, and is more than capable of slaughtering enemies. As he should be, mind you, but I just don't see the balance here, even if on the surface it looks like a fun scenario.
The third scenario has the heroes killing another evil wizard. If the wizard lives 8 turns, the Overlord wins. In this case, the wizard has 2 armor and 5 hit points. Conan and the thief can both get to the wizard on turn 1, and both can deal a maximum attack. It'll take luck to kill the wizard, but he'll be hurting bad even if he uses all his dice on defense (mathematically, 2 hp left). Turn 2, the wizard will limp away, but an exhausted Conan (did I mention you really can't do a full on attack every turn?) can still take out his chump guards, and Belit's full attack will probably end the wizard. The rogue will either rest, or loot a chest and maybe find an energy potion. Turn 3, the wizard likely dies. After that, the wizard will like have a monstrous defender (armor 3) which the heroes can't really kill in time to get to the wizard. I'm still playing with it, but I sure don't see anything better for the wizard, and the heroes really can't waste time getting to him.
Hmm, maybe if the wizard does absolutely nothing on the first turn, just sits there and collects dice for defense, he might survive. I'll have to take a few more swings with that effort...(EDIT: nope, just standing there and being pounded on doesn't help).
The point here is still strategy is pretty limited. It's a good bash-em-up, but as far as decisions go, it's thin sauce.
So if someone plays a Conan game like a gutless, spineless Rules Lawyer, it doesn't work right?
Is that a bug or a feature? :D
I'm reminded of the Car Wars player who maxxed out armor, had a 360 turret, an armored beer fridge and a kami-bomb. The car couldn't practically move, but he didn't care.
Some times you just break out The Bucket, crack someone upside the head, tell them to stop being a useless shitbag, and play the goddamn game.
Go and Chess still exist, as does Advanced Squad Leader and a hundred other games with in-depth, decades or even centuries-proven tactical challenge.
A miniatures skirmish game based on a genre property probably should worry most about the genre. I'm far more concerned with Hadrathus teleporting and fireballing then I am the GM being able to turtle with a Giant Snake. Dicks will be dicks, therefore The Bucket.
Gutless, spineless rules lawyer? Geez, a bit harsh, eh?
I mean, if the mission is "hold out until reinforcements arrive," is it really gutless to, you know, play defensively until, you know, reinforcements arrive? It's totally within the Conan genre for the princess to be guarded by a giant snake, after all. The issue is the game design is goofy, the snake is just too tough if the Overload knows what he's doing.
Toss the "you're a dick" rationalization for the first scenario, fine. The second scenario, doesn't work either. The mission is "try to kill Belit quickly"...I don't think the Belit player is being a dick for NOT having Belit abandon her guards and rush over to the enemy boat and refuse to defend herself.
Geez.
I grant the third mission is exciting, being typically a 2 turn game...but there's no real options here for either player. If the heroes don't rush to the wizard, he'll have time to hide behind the snake (much like scenario 1, it's an 8 turn game)...if the heroes do rush the wizard, the wizard really can't do much but hope for some very serious luck on his part.
Can Conan move into the zone with the Snake & the Rape Object and then pick up the Rape Object and move out of the zone?
Conan would be hindered, but are there rules that say the Rape Object can't be moved if any foes are in that zone?
Nope--Snake has "blocker", you can't move out. Rape Object has encumbrance 6, so she can't be thrown out (the head can be tossed, at least). Thief has "evasion", but he loses it if his encumbrance goes past 5. Rape Object has no independent thought or action.
Quote from: Doom;933531Geez, a bit harsh, eh?
Maybe, but any scenario with a false dissociated turn limit restriction leaves itself open to Sheldon Abuse. A Conan scenario is Win or Get Away, not "Hold off the Winged Apes until the Cavalry arrives" or "Corner Case like a Denner until you win by technicality." If you have to have those types of scenarios, have them be explicit, associated and rare.
Quote from: Spinachcat;933539Can Conan move into the zone with the Snake & the Rape Object and then pick up the Rape Object and move out of the zone?
Conan would be hindered, but are there rules that say the Rape Object can't be moved if any foes are in that zone?
I see what you did there. :D At some point, game companies are just going to stop hiring women. It's not like hiring them is doing wonders for PR anyway.
I only support hiring talented people, regardless if you gotta grab'em by the dick or the pussy.
TSR put out a boardgame called Dragonstrike back in the 90s that wasn't perfect, but had some excellent ideas. One was that you has X turns to complete the mission, but if you went beyond turn X, then the Dragon would arrive and the Dragon was a horrific killing machine. So, the X turns was not without merit.
I am kinda confused how these scenarios got past so many playtesters.
Quote from: Spinachcat;933553I only support hiring talented people, regardless if you gotta grab'em by the dick or the pussy.
TSR put out a boardgame called Dragonstrike back in the 90s that wasn't perfect, but had some excellent ideas. One was that you has X turns to complete the mission, but if you went beyond turn X, then the Dragon would arrive and the Dragon was a horrific killing machine. So, the X turns was not without merit.
I am kinda confused how these scenarios got past so many playtesters.
Well, if the playtesters are just dudes at convention demos, then it'd be pretty easy. You won't see the problem the first game, especially if you have a new player playing as Overseer. I didn't see the problem the first game...it took two swings before it became clear that you're no going to kill the snake unless the Overseer either 1) doesn't care if the snake lives or 2) has exhausted all his dice and left nothing for defense.
Option "2" only happens if you waste dice moving or attacking, and it's not immediately obvious that attacking is pointless. Yes, you can kill the heroes, theoretically, but doing so only makes the other heroes stronger (I'm serious, they recover more quickly when one dies)...it make more sense to just knock a hero down to 2 HP or so and then leave them alone. And, generally, you won't put much effort into attacking when you're on defense.
But playing at a convention, where you might not even play a whole game (a game takes under an hour once you know the rules, but if you don't know them, a bit more than an hour is quite possible), you're not going to spot real flaws. I strongly suspect only Scenario 1 was played in demos, though. I have no idea how nobody noticed how ridiculous scenario 2 is, it's pretty clear on one play that there's just no way you're going to kill Belit.
For what it's worth, that third scenario is somewhat balanced (I'd put it 70/30 Conan).
Quote from: Spinachcat;933553One was that you has X turns to complete the mission, but if you went beyond turn X, then the Dragon would arrive and the Dragon was a horrific killing machine. So, the X turns was not without merit.
I have probably a dozen miniatures wargames rule sets that contain asymmetric scenarios with a win condition of "if X does not happen within Y turns, Side B loses".
QuoteI am kinda confused how these scenarios got past so many playtesters.
The more thematic a game is, the less likely anyone will catch optimization errors. Hell, as a counter-example M&M 2nd edition was out for something like four years and being played heavily before someone noticed that if you bought all your core stats down to zero and bought the bonuses they gave back up using other mechanics present in the system you'd net out to +10-15 points.
The fourth scenario pits Conan & Pals against a horde of Picts. They must protect a priestess from casting a ritual before the Picts fight their way past the heroes and kill her.
It's the most interesting scenario because it doesn't always play the same way every time. The Picts must first break down barriers to get into the village (curiously enough, if they break the wall too quickly, the heroes are more likely to win). There's actually about a 0.15% chance (I did the math) the heroes will win because of a really fast ritual casting on the very first chance it could be cast, and around a 20% chance (mostly a guess, but it happened twice in 10 games) it'll happen from a quick casting on the second chance...the third chance is a near certainty (never happened, but the Overlord's pretty much lost at that point anyway).
Past the "pure luck" aspect, things are hard for the heroes. The wizard is chucking a fireball every round, as the hordes close in--fun, but still obnoxious for a Conan game. Conan can "pull a Denner" and bash down a wall to provide easier access to the priestess--the rules say if "anyone" in her space at the beginning of the Overlord's (Pict's) turn she dies. Putting the hole in the makes it easier to get in, but when a Pict does go in, a hero needs to move in, kill the Pict, and then move out, and that's when the hole really pays (you pay 1 point to move through the hole, but 2 points to move through a door).
If Zogar Sag somehow makes it to the priestess' space, that's basically game over, as he's tough to kill in a oneshot unless Conan's had a few hard swings at him.
Alas, it's Christmas and I must travel, so no Conan for a while. Arg.
I'm getting mine pro-painted, hopefully people will still be playing it when I get it back all shiny! :)
Quote from: Motorskills;936492I'm getting mine pro-painted, hopefully people will still be playing it when I get it back all shiny! :)
What service are you using or is it a local painter?
Quote from: Doom;936399(curiously enough, if they break the wall too quickly, the heroes are more likely to win). There's actually about a 0.15% chance (I did the math) the heroes will win because of a really fast ritual casting on the very first chance it could be cast, and around a 20% chance (mostly a guess, but it happened twice in 10 games) it'll happen from a quick casting on the second chance...the third chance is a near certainty (never happened, but the Overlord's pretty much lost at that point anyway).
Conan can "pull a Denner" and bash down a wall to provide easier access to the priestess--the rules say if "anyone" in her space at the beginning of the Overlord's (Pict's) turn she dies. Putting the hole in the makes it easier to get in, but when a Pict does go in, a hero needs to move in, kill the Pict, and then move out, and that's when the hole really pays (you pay 1 point to move through the hole, but 2 points to move through a door).
It's kind of funny, but this sounds like like 4e to me. Strategies based on boardgame interactions created by rules designed to give a tactical challenge without concerning what they represent in the setting of the game itself. Of course, it's a boardgame, not an RPG, so that's fine, but the game seems quite open to...I'll be kind and say "Un-Conanlike" strategies.
Well, it *is* a boardgame. I do concede "bash a hole in the wall because the hole is easier to navigate than the door" is more game-y than "have the giant snake guard the princess."
Quote from: CRKrueger;936493What service are you using or is it a local painter?
A bit of both. :)
It's is full-time job (a service I suppose?), but I met the guy face to face in Mexico to walk through the project.
Very impressed with Bernardo's skills (https://www.facebook.com/MaximoPaintingStudio/). The lovely Claudia provides the translations :)
Quote from: Motorskills;936968A bit of both. :)
It's is full-time job (a service I suppose?), but I met the guy face to face in Mexico to walk through the project. Very impressed with Bernardo's skills (https://www.facebook.com/MaximoPaintingStudio/). The lovely Claudia provides the translations :)
Wow, seems pretty badass. What's he charge for a typical D&D mini?
Quote from: Chainsaw;936975Wow, seems pretty badass. What's he charge for a typical D&D mini?
The Conan miniatures are small, and I am giving him hundreds of them, so obviously I'm getting a bulk deal, but here are some of his prices:.
QuoteStandard figures of the 32 mm depends on the complexity and the detail the client request: 6usd - 8usd
Special figures like Personage: 13usd - 15usd
Props: 2usd - 3usd
I think that's pretty standard across the world, but you might be able to cut a better deal, with the peso so far in the tank as it is.