Had to double check...

...thought I stumbled onto TBP for a moment there.

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 04:27:07 PM
Had to double check...

...thought I stumbled onto TBP for a moment there.

InB4 someone drops in to aggressively point out the differences, while willfully ignoring the parallels.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 03:38:15 PM
And now Geeky knows what means to be the woke in a room of sane people

Hahahahahaha!

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
This reminds me of the two big questions left in my life:

Why a black actor can play a Elf in The Rings of Power but Ryan Gosling can't be Black Panther?

I'mma use that...

QuoteEdit: Oh! And Geeky even BLOCKED ME! He is really into this new "woke full immersion" phase of his (their?) life

He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Mostly "It is not woke if it is me".

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

More like an Ouroboros. It just goes in circles eating itself.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 05:13:14 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Mostly "It is not woke if it is me".

You don't understand! No one's calling for outright bans (...yet), so there's no parallels. Cuz two things can't be alike if one of them is basically the same thing, only worse.

Quote
This reminds me of the two big questions left in my life:

Why a black actor can play a Elf in The Rings of Power but Ryan Gosling can't be Black Panther?

How much do you know about the history and basis of critical theory? Basically the way it's defined is it only goes one way. It's the smooth-brained normie "centrist" types who think they can "pwn the left" by pointing out the hypocrisy which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the left and projecting onto them a sense of fair play which they do not have and do not care about.

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Why Geeky still hasn't denounced a Servant of Asmodeus gleefully doing evil in exchange for hellish favours as a degenerate?

I can't speak for him, but that would depend on if one views the devil as something real or imaginary. If you really believe in Satan then its probably definitely going to be degenerate. If not, it's just another fictional evil.

Quote from: Iskandyr on August 05, 2023, 06:53:14 PM
If you really believe in Satan then its probably definitely going to be degenerate. If not, it's just another fictional evil.

In the context of a fantasy game, it is literally a fictional evil.

That was the probe of the question: why is one fictional evil not considered degenerate, while another fictional evil is? If a player is going to impose their moral prerogative upon a game, is it not hypocritical to pick and choose which fictional evils they will accept? The game includes killing and theft... would these not be abhorent practices worthy of a boycott?

If the act of buying a game that includes quasi-bestiality (the "bear" is actually a shapeshifted druid) is somehow tacit approval of a degenerate lifestyle, then wouldn't buying a game that allows demon-summoning, theft, and murder also be tacit approval for those things?

The question was never about whether or not someone has the right to boycott a product, it was about whether or not their reasoning for the boycott was consistent.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 05, 2023, 05:23:49 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

More like an Ouroboros. It just goes in circles eating itself.

Quote from: Reckall on August 05, 2023, 05:13:14 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 05:08:40 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on August 05, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
He even CANCELED us for calling him out... Jesus. It really does fuckin' loop around.

Horseshoe Theory confirmed?

Mostly "It is not woke if it is me".

You don't understand! No one's calling for outright bans (...yet), so there's no parallels. Cuz two things can't be alike if one of them is basically the same thing, only worse.

And here we have FOUR imbeciles that don't know what cancelling someone means, me not wanting to read your stupid "enlightened centrist tm" drivel isn't me cancelling you.

And yes, this means both VisionStorm and Effete are being added to the ignore list, have fun imagining things and thinking it's reality you lying twats.

At this rate Geeky is going to run out of people to block for the things he's imagined they're saying about him in maybe a week.

This feels like it was triggered by more than the usual discontent.

I know you can't hear me Geeky, but I'm saying some prayers that whatever is going on to cause this will abate.

On topic, I am starting to question the approach to resisting the woke on this stuff, as much of this railing at the heavens isn't directed at anyone it might make a difference with. I mean, I barely play video games as it is and very few people here seem all that interested in modern D&D offshoots, so it's not like complaining here is doing anything but preaching to the choir... which is pretty much virtue signaling adjacent... looking for praise from people who already agree.

Also with further details I still think it's degenerate, but it doesn't feel any more deserving of particular scorn than half or more of everything else released this year. The only reason to really single it out amidst the sea of entertainment dreck is that it's D&D adjacent which means it's associated with the soulless megacorp most here can't stand.

I don't so much think it's Oroboros theory in relation to some right/left extremes turning fanatical as it is just human nature to turn fanatical about passions and more judgmental of dissent the more you wrap your identity up in something.

Which in turn leads to a situation where nuance isn't allowed in the discussion. Where you can't discuss grammar choices without disagreement meaning you're guilty of grooming kids because you don't view he vs. they (particularly when they was the norm for about 500 of the last 650 years and was never entirely stamped out anyway) is a hill to die on versus something you could get much broader support to push back on.

For example, if instead of going after BG3 for optional polymorph porn, an outrage practically designed to draw all the outrage while being so ridiculous that few in the general audience will take it seriously... if instead we focused on "why do the characters in this game even NEED explicit genitalia in the first place?" it might have been able to spark more outrage in the general population, particularly parents already upset about the sexualization of children (yes, I know it's rated MA, but parents barely pay attention and it's rarely enforced).

But instead the protest burned all its energy on "(hur hur) bear-humping."

So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

I haven't seen anyone denigrating the thread.

I have seen a number of people question allocation of limited resources towards given issues (people have only so many fucks to give and perpetual outrage is exhausting)... I'd personally rather rail against the game in question for why it includes genitalia at all; what about the game so desperately calls for their detailed inclusion that it couldn't possibly be made without a "choose your explicit genitals" feature?

I would suggest that this particular outrage the OP started railing about was engineered by the game developer specifically to suck all the oxygen out of that broader controversy that normies might actually give a shit about if it were actually focused on and keep it laser focused on a much harder for normies to take seriously controversy about bear sex.

But no, you can't have that sort of nuance here now; if you aren't sufficiently outraged by what the OP wants to be outraged about you become the enemy outgroup who must be accused of every sin and for whom there is no possibility of forgiveness (even unconditional apologies are insufficient).

VisionStorm is right; toxic purity spiraling isn't exclusive to the Woke... the woke are just the most prominent example of it.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

For starters, I think a little clarification needs to be added first. The "bear" is actually a shapeshifted druid, so there's a bit of nuance to the situation. It's not like the vampire dude cast animal friendship on an actual bear and commanded it to do the nasty. The sex scene is the culmination of several romance options between the vampire and the druid. Turning into a bear for the act is kind of played off as shock humor, and I think if it wasn't used as a marketing ploy, it would not have been such a big deal.

But to answer your questions, I don't think a game marketed to adults should have any limits, even if the things depicted are unlawful or morally reprehensible. I believe in truth in advertising, and that such products should contain warnings about their content so customers can make informed decisions about whether or not it is right for them.

Products marketed to kids is a different matter. Overt sexual behavior, lewd images, foul language, and graphic violence are all reasonable restrictions. If parents ignore age ratings, then that isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with the parent. And I also think that stores that knowing sell an age-restricted game to a minor should face liability in the same way selling cigarettes or alcohol to minors is.

As for what behavior I would PERSONALLY find degenerate, I don't think that's relevent to the discussion. A fictional setting is just that: fictional. The choices a player makes do not necessarily reflect their own beliefs. What I will say is that I think things should make sense within the context of the game. If there is nudity, why? How does that fit into the scene or the world? In other words, some degree of artistic expression is preferrable for these to be present.

To this point, I think Chris24601 nailed it on the head with regards to the game having overt genitalia. It's not necessary at all. The game could easily have used clever angles without the need to go the full monty. Chris is absolutely right that the buzz around the bear thing may have obfuscated a much more controversial decision by the devs.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 05, 2023, 11:56:05 PM
So, just so we are clear here, those of you who are denigrating this thread are perfectly fine with a video game that includes options to have sex with animals.  And this is not "degenerate" in your opinion.  If this is an accurate description of your opinion, I would like to know a) if there is anything you feel a mass-marketed video game should not include (or would be repulsive if it did include) and b) what behavior would you consider to be a sign of "degeneracy" in a game?

Just so we're clear:

I don't care if it includes that, futas, Ogre (or was it Troll?) sex and full nudity (ALL of which are present in this porn game maskerading as something else). I'm not calling for banning it or any other game like it.

But it is a game from degenerates, by degenerates and for degenerates.

What might be of concern is that it should have been rated for adults only and it wasn't.

What I find funny is a pseudo Christian who has an issue with some degenerate taking his game mechanics and making something like BG3 and claim compatibility with his shit (all of which anyone can legally do) and wants a way to prevent that from happening joining in trying to bash me.

And the other idiots claiming that I totally want it banned even if they can't produce the evidence to substantiate their claims.

Guess me saying it's FOR DEGENERATES must have hit a nerve with those.

When I saw this thread I thought "Well, this is new..." However, I first tried the, you know, actual game. Yes, you can create a "they/them" character, but you aren't forced to do it. You can create a female trucker but when I went for a (stereotypical) beautiful paladinette I easily created a beautiful woman.

Regarding "genitals" I can be bothered less. However, if there is an option (like in many "better bodies" mods for Skyrim) I always choose "realistic". Some of these mods ask you if you want a "doll" down there or a realistic representation - and somehow if I choose "doll" I feel that part of the illusion of realism goes away. Having said that, I don't think I ever even checked once the final model. In BG3 I clicked on "default" for my body type and moved on.

Generally speaking, my feeling is that BG3 is "inclusive" in the original, positive, sense of the word: everyone is welcome, nothing is forced. I tried to avoid spoilers but here and there I read snippets of comments by players astounded by the enormity of the game's contents. In my four hours (I had to stop for technical reasons) I still have to find something outside what you feel a D&D (the way it was) game should contain.

Was this poor bear a marketing stunt? If so, it worked perfectly, as it enraged the "righteous crowd" thus making a fictional bear in a fictional setting more popular than 90% of the influencers out there ( My reaction: "You can do THAT? Boy, when they were saying that BG3 is BIG they meant business...") Congratulations to all those who ate hook, bait and line - showing their hypocrisy as a side effect.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 06, 2023, 01:18:59 AM
Just so we're clear:

I don't care if it includes that, futas, Ogre (or was it Troll?) sex and full nudity (ALL of which are present in this porn game maskerading as something else).

BG3 is not a porn game. It is as pornographic as Mass Effect is - only a bit more extreme (and still you aren't forced down that path). Do you even tried it??

Quote
But it is a game from degenerates, by degenerates and for degenerates.

"I'm not calling for the game to be banned - I'm only insulting EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY about it" (while still having not a single clue about what I'm talking about).

Quote
What might be of concern is that it should have been rated for adults only and it wasn't.

It is rated M/17+

Quote
What I find funny is a pseudo Christian who has an issue with some degenerate taking his game mechanics and making something like BG3 and claim compatibility with his shit (all of which anyone can legally do) and wants a way to prevent that from happening joining in trying to bash me.

Fair admission: I re-read what you wrote here three times and I still don't understand what you are saying.

Quote
And the other idiots claiming that I totally want it banned even if they can't produce the evidence to substantiate their claims.

But you blocked some of those with dissenting opinions, right? You told so.

Quote
Guess me saying it's FOR DEGENERATES must have hit a nerve with those.

Oh, yeah, ye olde "I was caught accusing people/entities of things I had no clue about, so, when the reality of the situation was shown to me I must HAVE HIT A NERVE. Isn't it? Isn't it?"

Something I can understand. You said some lunatic things about BG3, defended them by behaving like a woke would have done, and blocked those expressing some sane counterpoints. Guess us saying "don't be a woke variant" must have hit a nerve with you.

Edit: BTW, I see that you are obsessed with "degenerates", "degeneration", "degenerating", "iDegen"... This may be a strong hint of projection. What? "You are projecting" is an old and stale counter-argument? Yep. True.