What's your experience? How does it compare to similar rules out there?

I'm especially interested in the latest edition:

http://testofbattle.com/drupal-4.7.4/

Quote from: Pierce InverarityWhat's your experience? How does it compare to similar rules out there?

I'm especially interested in the latest edition:

http://testofbattle.com/drupal-4.7.4/

I've played a lot of Command Decision 3.  For many years it was the standard WW2 game in our local club.  

Overall I thought it was a pretty good game, but I can't vouch for the newest edition as I haven't checked it out yet.  As for how it stacks up against other rules, it is a battalion level game, so it fits somewhere between Flames of War at the company level, and division level games like Blitzkrieg Commander.  I can definitely give you advice; Command Decision should be strictly played as a battalion game.  In the old days we used to play very large battles (one memorable occasion we had two full Soviet Rifle Divisions in the attack), but we discovered that the game bogged down and simply wasn't fun.  Once we strictly limited the fights to "Battalion Plus" (Roughly a battalion plus a specialized company in support) the game became fun.

A few issues that I can point out (at least for CDIII - I can't say if they have been fixed in the latest incarnation) are:

1.  The spotting system is very fiddly and was a source of issues
2.  The mechanics were just a tad too detailed for a battalion commander's game, so it sometimes didn't play as quickly as it probably should.  For example, there was a lot of detail in armor penetration and angle that a battalion commander probably wouldn't be concerned with.  That's what the platoon and company commanders are for.
3.  The game suffered from a little bit of German worship, but nowhere near the Germanaphilia of Flames of War, for example.  Overall, CDIII was pretty fair in its assessments of the major combatants.  I had some beefs with their Soviet OBs, but it was relatively small stuff and the game was written before a lot of great post Cold War research on The Soviet Army had percolated into the public.

In any case, those are just my impressions and experiences with the game.  I would recommend it for a battalion fight.  Hope that helps.


TGA

It most certainly does, thanks very much!

Do you think CD is still popular today? I'm trying to gauge which is the most played WWII game besides Flames of War. Just to get a sense of the scene. The CD forums are very active, compared to what else I've seen so far.

Of course, in my irrational love for the exquisite underdog I got a copy of The Face of Battle. Now that looks utterly cool, but of course I won't ever find an opponent.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityIt most certainly does, thanks very much!

Do you think CD is still popular today? I'm trying to gauge which is the most played WWII game besides Flames of War. Just to get a sense of the scene. The CD forums are very active, compared to what else I've seen so far.

Of course, in my irrational love for the exquisite underdog I got a copy of The Face of Battle. Now that looks utterly cool, but of course I won't ever find an opponent.

Glad to be of help if I can!  As for popularity, the only gauge I have is the local situation, and CD in the Austin area has been completely subsumed by Flames of War in WW2 gaming.  There may be some small local groups that are still playing it, but I personally haven't seen a game of it in a couple of years.  I am sure that there are pockets of active players, though, particularly in the Midwest where the game was born and Chadwick and crew  still have a lot of influence.

I have only heard a little bit about The Face of Battle, but it sounded like an interesting idea, is a bit cumbersome in implementation.  Have you had a chance to do some solo game test with it?


TGA

BTW, I followed the link you provided to the info for the new edition.  After scanning the page it seems that they have fixed a lot of the mechanical clunkiness of the 3rd edition...looks like a good game to me!

Thanks for the heads up!  


TGA

I play CD three or four times a year, reffed by a friend, so I've never actually read the rules.

They play quite satisfactorily.. things work pretty much as I'd expect them.

I recommend it.

Of course, I hang around with uber-miniatures-grognards who would not play FoW on a bet just because of its pedigree.  I've never seen a game of it played.

TGA, re. The Face of Battle, I've only ploughed through a third of it, but here are two posts from TMP that sold me on it:

QuoteAs stated, I picked this used set up as part of a large bundle of WWII rules. I bought the set for the "other" stuff, but thought what the heck, it might be interesting to see what a detailed set of minis rules looked like.

My first reaction was to don a wreath of garlic and wonder about the cost of holy water. Do churches have supplies just sitting around in bottles? What would they charge, and how many bottles can I get?

This rule set will steal your soul. You playfully tossed around the word "comprehensive." Jurgen, that's like saying the Titanic suffered a slight mishap on it's maiden voyage. What an understatement.

Comprehensive is right!

And they are quite well written. Even more important than that, they are wonderfully laid out. Simple games can be splattered across a few pages and arranged by someone with no skills whatsoever, and the game is still playable. But a detailed set like this? If the formatting is flawed, you would never find the rule you were looking for.

This set is laid out in an easy to find and read and reference format. Developed and written by Michael Bell, and produced by Merrimac Enterprises, both should take a collective bow for their efforts.

I knew I was in trouble from the first few minutes though. I got past the wonderful layout and flipped to a page to check up on the forces included. Yu can learn a lot about a game by checking the stats for equipment.

Turned to P1 (the rules are nicely organized by sections, and the German Forces listing starts on P1.

P1 – A detailed chart of Wehrmacht and SS ranks (with some game stats) and a listing of the different types of badges a soldier can earn. Wound badge, infantry assault badge, close combat bar, and sniper badge to name a few. Also, heroic badges are are listed.

P2 – Nearly a full page of typical German names, must be 130 or more.

P3 – This starts the listing of equipment, pistols, rifles, MGs and such, with a brief description of each.

P4 – Two big tables that fill the page with the stats for the various small arms. The year the weapon was available, and the caliber are two of the items on the tables.

Okay, so far, lots of interesting info, but I was hanging in there. Then I got to page P5. Two tables that take up the bulk of the page to describe 15 different types of, wait for it . . . grenades.

HOLY COW! A grenade is a grenade, right? Haven't we all seen that photo of the German soldier tossing that potatoe-masher? Who knew there were so many types. My heart stopped. I imagined the following exchange:

Me: Take that Bobby. Gefreiter Lenhoff (from P1 and P2) tosses his grenade at your advancing Sherman. One good roll and your last tank is history.
Bobby: What sort of grenade? Is it the EiG 39 or an old outdated StG24?
Me: Huh?
Bobby: Perhaps it's an HL-Handgrenate. But if so, those are frag grenades. Probably not going to do much damage.
Me: Yeah, I knew that (starting to sweat).
Bobby: Now, I hope it's not a Sturmpistole. True, it came in both HE and AT versions, but I'm afraid it wasn't available until 1944, and we're playing a scenario in Tunisia old pal.
Me: Yeah, well... of course it's not one of those. (I quickly flip to thje proper page). Here it is, just what I thought. It's the Panzerhandmine 3.
Bobby: Really? Not the Panzerhandgrenate 41 with the +1 Quality Modifier?

I just want to toss a grenade.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED this stuff. I sat there and read the whole chapter on German forces. Did you know the SdKfz 234/1 can travel at full speed in reverse? Care to know which vewhicles had radios? How many rounds of each type of ammo were carried, or how fast the turret traversed? It's all in the tables.

Somebody (well, Michael Ball) went to a LOT of trouble and did a LOT of research to come up with this stuff.

I would love to have the time to play a game this detailed, but I know that's just never going to happen. Which is why, after I carefully organized all the chapters in a binder with proper tabs to make it even easier to find things, I promptly packed it away in a box.

I should have placed the box int he attic though. That was my mistake. I had to open the box to write this, and now those rules and all those pages chocked full of info are starting to call me again.

The deal is off. I can't sell this set. This is the holy Bible of detailed WWII gaming. How could I ever part with this? Curse you and your "Intimidated" comment Jurgen! I'm tossing a Gewehrgranatger your way! No wait, I think that's a rifle grenade launcher, not an actual grenade. Aw, what the heck. I'm reaching for the good old reliable Steilhandgranate 39 potato masher.

Oh, for those who care, the Russians only have 8 types of grenades, whereas the Americans have 11 and the mighty Commonwealth have 12.

Steve

:haw:

Quoteour club made a decision for The Face Of Battle (TFOB). The mechanics are quite simple. It might seem different when you look at the sheer size of the rules, but that is due to a large amount of examples, explainations and repetitions. Once you have seen that the rules boil down to very little you will find them easy to play. They are extremely realistic, fast paced and can even be played at conventions with novices after about 2 or 3 minutes of explanations. If you want there are special rules for anything and you will find complete equipment and vehicle lists for Germans, Russians, US and Commonwealth (Pacific expansion is coming up). I have a very good friend who served in the British Army with combat experience from the Falklands to Desert Storm and he said that this was the one system that satisfied has wish for an authentic feel, which is why I bought the rules and never regretted it. And they have the added advantage, that there is a modern version as well, that is equally good. So if you are into that "setting" as well, you will not have to learn two different sets of rules.

Cheers,

Burkhard

No.2 is right so far as I can see. The core of the game is a very simple task resolution, and the rest is WWII data pr0n gathering around it like some wondrous deep sea coral.

This game does have rules for bicycles and ski troops. As it should. I'm German. What's a Sturmpistole?

Oh shit. I'm sold.

-=Grim=-

Quote from: Pierce InverarityNo.2 is right so far as I can see. The core of the game is a very simple task resolution, and the rest is WWII data pr0n gathering around it like some wondrous deep sea coral.

This game does have rules for bicycles and ski troops. As it should. I'm German. What's a Sturmpistole?

Thanks for the info on Face of Battle, Pierce.  It looks pretty interesting, if dense!  I have less interest in dense than I did when a younger man, but if the core mechanics are solid and simple I think I'll take a closer look.  I have been beating my head against the rock of developing a "realistic" skirmish game for modern combat (WW2 and after), but why reinvent the wheel if someone has already done a good job at it.


TGA

I SO want to play this...

http://www.shopofmagic.com/lite/cart.php?target=product&product_id=17860&category_id=664

QuoteAll American is the second expansion pack for The Face of Battle WW2 Skirmish rules. The United States Expansion Pack includes new rules for the American Army in World War II. The pack includes 8 detailed scenarios, 1 mini-campaign game (Normandy Airborne), all American vehicles from every theatre of operation are listed, complete equipment lists, TO&E, new cards, new events, and more. The expansion includes chapter H Paratrooper rules, chapter U United States, 8 scenarios, 1 mini-campaign, new smoke templates, new cards, weapon and ordnance data, over 70 vehicles, equipment lists, TO&E, a tournament scenario with tournament rules and much more.

Scenarios Covered in this Expansion

Little Groups of Paratroopers
The D-Day objectives for the 101st Airborne and 82nd Airborne were to secure bridges, causeways, destroy coastal batteries, provide defensive positions, secure towns and capture locks. The paratroopers were also assigned to protect glider landing zones. Some 13,000 men dropped those early hours of D-Day in six main drop zones. Only 20% were on target. As a result of these scattered drops, Little Groups of Paratroopers (LGOP) were formed. The Commander�s instructions for the LGOP �March to the sound of the guns and kill anyone who is not dressed like you...�

Thunder Flash
On June 6th, the men of Able Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Regiment, started for their objective. Having landing 20km�s from their target of Angoville-au-Plain, the task of reaching their main force would be difficult. Immediately the men came upon German forces near the town of Ravenoville. A fire-fight at a small farm outside the town would be the first of many skirmishes for these men.

The Unexpected Party
One of the objectives of the 1st Battalion, 506th Regiment was to secure a second bridge across the Mederet River. The bridge was vital in securing the road between Ste M�re-Eglise and the western Contentin, eventually to be used by the advancing 4th Infantry Division. On the eastern end of the bridge a farm complex called le Manoir provided an excellent stronghold for the German forces. The farm must be taken.

A Good Day to Fight
At the other end of the bridge at Le Manoir, elements of the 2nd Battalion, 507th Parachute Regiment were setting up position. The objective was to secure the town of Cauquigny. Lieutenant Louis Levy to take a small group of men and set up defences around the Cauquigny church. As soon as Levy�s men were in position, tanks and infantry from the village began their assault on the bridge. Can the Paratroopers hold against an armoured assault?

Little Round Top
The 505th was tasked with providing a roadblock at Neuville-au-Plain on Route nationale 13. Neuville was a hamlet surrounded by orchards and bocage, an excellent place to set up a defence. Within twenty minutes of arriving at the hamlet, elements of the 1058th Grenadier Regiment arrived and the two forces engaged each other. German armour advances on hidden units of the 505th PIR.

To Save A Few
Lieutenant Turner Turnbull was ordered to set up a roadblock at Neuville on Route nationale 13 north of Ste. Mere-Eglise. For the rest of the morning the men of 2/505th Parachute Regiment held out against an ever increasing enemy force. The situation would soon change for the paratroopers. After a few hours the Germans had managed to surround the defenders. Lieutenant Turnbull had little choice - he must escape. But where?

To Lead By Example
The final D-Day objective the 502nd Parachute was to take a German artillery barracks at les Mezieres, near St Martin de Varreville. The code name for the task was WXYZ. As Sergeant Summers prepared his men to attack the buildings, he detected a general lack of enthusiasm. Determined to carry out his orders, Summers decided to charge the facility himself - hoping to inspire his men.

The Forest of Hell
The objective of the 22nd Regiment on November 25th, 1944 was to take the village of Grosshau in the H�rtgun Forest. A small Task Force was to attack from the south. Under the impression the village was lightly defended, the combined attack of armour and infantry were to break through into the village. Major Kemp ordered the attack to begin at 1145 hrs, some 3 hours behind schedule. Unfortunately the delay allowed the Germans to situate their defences northward. A very exciting close action game.

The Secret Army
In 1940, Winston Churchill created the Special Operations Executive. The goal was �to set Europe ablaze!� through Partisan activities. A plane carrying five of the most highly coveted Spies of the SOE was shot down over the French border. The Spies managed to parachute into the French countryside. Your mission is to track down and find these five heroes of the French Resistance. Their fate is in your hands. An exciting tournament scenario.

...using these:

http://www.victoryforce.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VFM&Category_Code=US-Para-Packs

Best WWII 28mm (well, 30mm) minis on the market.

The detail! The Change Hand Feature!

http://www.victoryforce.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VFM&Category_Code=usparawwiie

The Gebirgsjager!

http://www.victoryforce.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VFM&Category_Code=Gebirgsjager

*drool*