Quote from: jhkim on March 22, 2023, 07:55:07 PM

Quote from: silencio789 on March 22, 2023, 05:50:52 PM
I don't remember anyone's skin colour being mentioned in Tolkien.
Given that Tolkien was a strong anti apartheid campaigner, so quite opposed to racial segregation or defining people by race then I am not really sure where you are coming from.

Tolkien did describe skin color at a number of points in his works - along with other features like hair color, eyes, and so forth - though not always. So from a purism standpoint, it is incorrect.

On the other hand, there are lots of things that aren't off in adaptations that are often overlooked. In the movies, Frodo was cast as a teenager when he was a 50-year-old man in the books. It was brought up as a technicality, but almost no one got upset over it. We didn't see threads over "age-swapping" of Frodo.

Hobbit. Not a man. From the parts in the book that describe age in hobbits, it seems they have longer lifespans, like Dwarves but probably not as long.

Quote from: silencio789 on March 22, 2023, 05:50:52 PM
I don't remember anyone's skin colour being mentioned in Tolkien.
Given that Tolkien was a strong anti apartheid campaigner, so quite opposed to racial segregation or defining people by race then I am not really sure where you are coming from.

Because the choice to "leftover" Aragorn is driven by white racism. Let a white person establish the role, and then give the crumbs to the "people of color".

Agreed... although I realise you may have been sarcastic.

I think drama is not simulation but will and should reflect the society performing it, and indeed may be more about that society than the original creators could have imagined.

We should cast a mix of people in our dramas since we are a society of mixed peoples.

This need not be the same at all times nor statistically accurate on a piece by piece, indeed it is very likely to need to not be so and do over represent  and under represent.
It need not lead to special measures in the field of drama/art/literature, there are many talented creators who come from a wide range of backgrounds.
It need not mean all creations are wholly mixed and heterogenous, many of us still live in quite homogenous societies and circles. It also does not have to reflect society, it can be aspirational and dystopian..

What it has needed is change and an acceptance that the previous dominance by the assumptions of who should be seen/read/heard can and will change either by natural organic shift, or by struggle if necessary.

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2023, 06:56:54 PM
Seattle needs a nuke.

And you really think this is an acceptable comment?

Quote from: silencio789 on March 23, 2023, 06:09:31 AM

Quote from: SHARK on March 22, 2023, 08:01:47 PM

All of this is also, not coincidentally, inspired from Marxism. It is all designed to demoralize an entire society, to emotionally exhaust them, and break them down, and cause divisions. This makes them all weaker and more ready to just get on their knees and accept the slave yoke to the Marxist/Globalist super-state.

Have you ever read Marx?

.

.

.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 22, 2023, 09:46:51 PM
Hobbit. Not a man. From the parts in the book that describe age in hobbits, it seems they have longer lifespans, like Dwarves but probably not as long.

   Hobbit 33 is the equivalent of human 18-21, Frodo stopped aging when he took possession of the Ring (Book 1, Chapter 2 makes this quite clear), and the Jackson adaptation drops the 17 years between "A Long-Expected Party" and the main action.

   Also, illustrations are not movies are not plays--certain media require or permit changes and compromises that feel gratuitous or heavy-handed in others.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 23, 2023, 07:12:30 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 22, 2023, 09:46:51 PM
Hobbit. Not a man. From the parts in the book that describe age in hobbits, it seems they have longer lifespans, like Dwarves but probably not as long.

   Hobbit 33 is the equivalent of human 18-21, Frodo stopped aging when he took possession of the Ring (Book 1, Chapter 2 makes this quite clear), and the Jackson adaptation drops the 17 years between "A Long-Expected Party" and the main action.

   Also, illustrations are not movies are not plays--certain media require or permit changes and compromises that feel gratuitous or heavy-handed in others.

OK, I'll grant 33 being more like 18-21, though dropping 17 years out of his life seems like another way of saying "age-swapping". To be clear, I think it's a fine artistic choice - but it's a noticeable difference from the books.

As further examples, the MCU casting non-white actors for parts like Fury, Hogun, and Heimdall got a lot of attention -- but there were huge sweeping changes in a ton of the comic background beyond this.

---

In general I agree illustrations aren't movies or plays. But if anything, I expect hand-drawn illustrations to be more stylized than in a live-action adaptation, and I expect less literalness and more artistic license. Tolkien has been adapted to death for seventy years. At this point, I expect non-literal adaptations, rather than having things match his text descriptions.

.....

Quote from: silencio789 on March 23, 2023, 06:06:59 AM
Agreed... although I realise you may have been sarcastic.

Not at all. I think a lot of racism drives these decisions, and they're coming from people claiming to be fighting racism.

QuoteI think drama is not simulation but will and should reflect the society performing it, and indeed may be more about that society than the original creators could have imagined.

We should cast a mix of people in our dramas since we are a society of mixed peoples.

This need not be the same at all times nor statistically accurate on a piece by piece, indeed it is very likely to need to not be so and do over represent  and under represent.
It need not lead to special measures in the field of drama/art/literature, there are many talented creators who come from a wide range of backgrounds.
It need not mean all creations are wholly mixed and heterogenous, many of us still live in quite homogenous societies and circles. It also does not have to reflect society, it can be aspirational and dystopian..

I agree. In another situation, I would not care about a black Aragorn. But in this time and place, I think it's a racist choice, driven by hateful people.

QuoteWhat it has needed is change and an acceptance that the previous dominance by the assumptions of who should be seen/read/heard can and will change either by natural organic shift, or by struggle if necessary.

Not by racists. They can suck the sweat from my balls. And a lot of people are seeing through their bullshit.

Quote from: silencio789 on March 23, 2023, 06:06:59 AM
Agreed... although I realise you may have been sarcastic.

I think drama is not simulation but will and should reflect the society performing it, and indeed may be more about that society than the original creators could have imagined.

We should cast a mix of people in our dramas since we are a society of mixed peoples.

This need not be the same at all times nor statistically accurate on a piece by piece, indeed it is very likely to need to not be so and do over represent  and under represent.
It need not lead to special measures in the field of drama/art/literature, there are many talented creators who come from a wide range of backgrounds.
It need not mean all creations are wholly mixed and heterogenous, many of us still live in quite homogenous societies and circles. It also does not have to reflect society, it can be aspirational and dystopian..

What it has needed is change and an acceptance that the previous dominance by the assumptions of who should be seen/read/heard can and will change either by natural organic shift, or by struggle if necessary.

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 20, 2023, 06:56:54 PM
Seattle needs a nuke.

And you really think this is an acceptable comment?

Quote from: silencio789 on March 23, 2023, 06:09:31 AM

Quote from: SHARK on March 22, 2023, 08:01:47 PM

All of this is also, not coincidentally, inspired from Marxism. It is all designed to demoralize an entire society, to emotionally exhaust them, and break them down, and cause divisions. This makes them all weaker and more ready to just get on their knees and accept the slave yoke to the Marxist/Globalist super-state.

Have you ever read Marx?

Greetings!

Yeah, I've read Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin, and Mao.
I've also read Alinsky, and "Rules For Radicals."

Have you listened to Yuri Bezhmenov?

All of the Woke Libtard propaganda is inspired by Marxism. Yuri Bezhmenov describes in his interviews--from over 40 years ago--the Communist strategies of infiltrating societies, and all of the institutions targeted, corrupted, and destroyed. Dividing societies along racial, class, and ideological lines, sowing confusion, disinformation, and cultivating culture-wide *Demoralization*. This entire program of propaganda, division, corruption, and demoralization--is purposely designed to weaken and destroy the culture as a whole, and make the population weak, and more psychologically prepared to embrace Marxist tyranny and control. The targeting and destruction of the Family; the Church; the infiltration of academia and the media; spreading outwards, gradually corrupting every major institution and power source within the culture. Saturating the culture with propaganda, "New-speak"--corrupting language, twisting definitions of words--and making up entirely new words. Bathing everyone in Marxist ideas, and political thought. Then, the infiltration of the political class. The culture is corrupted, polluted, and a hollowed out, broken husk, ripe for conquest, or merely a pathetic shadow of its former self.

Corrupting all of our arts and entertainment, our media, is all part of that same process.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on March 22, 2023, 08:01:47 PM
Greetings!

More anti-white racism. It is designed purposefully to denigrate and mock white men, white strength, white values, and white heroes--and replace them with black men. Or women......

Disney is race swapping Snow White, let that sink in. 😄

Quote from: silencio789 on March 23, 2023, 06:06:59 AM
I think drama is not simulation but will and should reflect the society performing it, and indeed may be more about that society than the original creators could have imagined.

We should cast a mix of people in our dramas since we are a society of mixed peoples.

I'll believe that when I see Tom Hanks starring as Shaft and Samuel Jackson starring as Simon Legree.

Quote from: Trond on March 24, 2023, 07:51:21 AM

Quote from: SHARK on March 22, 2023, 08:01:47 PM
Greetings!

More anti-white racism. It is designed purposefully to denigrate and mock white men, white strength, white values, and white heroes--and replace them with black men. Or women......

Disney is race swapping Snow White, let that sink in. 😄

It's a shame that we'll never see Scarlet Johansson as Foxy Brown, because it only swaps one way. 

"She's brown sugar and spice
but if you don't treat her nice
she'll put you on ice!"

Quote from: DocJones on March 24, 2023, 02:19:36 PM

Quote from: Trond on March 24, 2023, 07:51:21 AM
Disney is race swapping Snow White, let that sink in. 😄

It's a shame that we'll never see Scarlet Johansson as Foxy Brown, because it only swaps one way.

I mean, we saw Johansson starring as Motoko Kusanagi just a few years ago.