Quote from: Justin Alexander;505307This upset Rincewind so much that he's incapable of actually reading, playing, or even thinking about AW without becoming obsessed with this random, irrelevant bloke.

A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Quote from: One Horse Town;505374Totally. The rest of the world sees it as a mistake from a game design perspective. Sadly, given Mr. Baker's philosophy, he doesn't. System matters, dude. If it's in there, it is meant to drive play.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

The rest of the world meaning you and Daddy Warpig. I have played the game and when the sex moves came up in play they did what they were supposed to--they emphasized the scarcity of the setting, and the difficulty of making uncompromised human connections. They didn't compel us to describe the events in lurid detail. It was James Bond level of detail. But it did add an aspect to the game that would not have been present otherwise. They didn't become the focus of the game, either. It was a small but worthwhile addition.

Quote from: daniel_ream;505385A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Of course, if you don't like the genius of AW, you must be a fanatic of Anti - Swine crusade, and not just spite pretentious story games, while still enjoying the good ones.

QuoteThe rest of the world meaning you and Daddy Warpig. I have played the game and when the sex moves came up in play they did what they were supposed to--they emphasized the scarcity of the setting, and the difficulty of making uncompromised human connections. They didn't compel us to describe the events in lurid detail. It was James Bond level of detail. But it did add an aspect to the game that would not have been present otherwise. They didn't become the focus of the game, either. It was a small but worthwhile addition.

You can just visit a brothel in any RPG and have just as much of "cold, currency - based sex".

Quote from: two_fishes;505387The rest of the world meaning you and Daddy Warpig. I have played the game and when the sex moves came up in play they did what they were supposed to--they emphasized the scarcity of the setting, and the difficulty of making uncompromised human connections. They didn't compel us to describe the events in lurid detail. It was James Bond level of detail. But it did add an aspect to the game that would not have been present otherwise. They didn't become the focus of the game, either. It was a small but worthwhile addition.

Edit: Worthless drivel.

I had no idea that sex in an PA setting was part of the scarcity of PA play. It certainly hasn't leaped out at me from various media.

Quote from: One Horse Town;505393Edit: Worthless drivel.

I had no idea that sex in an PA setting was part of the scarcity of PA play. It certainly hasn't leaped out at me from various media.

Whatever. Keep on beating your drum.

Quote from: two_fishes;505395Whatever. Keep on beating your drum.

At least state your case. I'm not interested in you rolling over and offering your belly.

You said that "when the sex moves came up in play they did what they were supposed to--they emphasized the scarcity of the setting,"

Quote from: two_fishes;505387the sex moves came up in play they did what they were supposed to--they emphasized the scarcity of the setting, and the difficulty of making uncompromised human connections.

Because an Angel choosing to save a particularly damage human, one she hated, wouldn't.

Because the Chopper dealing with a rebellion in the ranks of his gang, wouldn't.

Because characters dealing with a threat to the core of their identity just couldn't, but a dry, "gimme my mechanical bonus" invocation of sex could.

My point isn't that sex itself is bad, it's that in this game it's a one-note mechanic. It's boring. Trite. Unimaginative.

There are plenty of other aspects of the characters and setting to explore.

So, let's go Rincewind's route: Make a mechanic based on a universal activity, suited to the setting. Something meaningful, not just sex.

(I'm guessing that was his thinking, based on his post about the mechanic of religious beliefs in his campaign, which he adapted from AW.)

Hey, how about something to do with the omni-present, undescribed psychic maelstrom lurking just out of sight of the character's minds?

"Open your mind to the maelstrom. On a 10+, get a bonus. On a 7-9, get a mixed success. On a failure, the MC takes as hard a shot as he wishes."

What? A setting dominated by a single, bizarre, overwhelming thing all the characters feel? A special mechanic relating to them trying to borrow determination or other power from it?

Couldn't that invoke the desperation and scarcity of the setting? "You're going to do what? Is that truly necessary?" "If I want to survive, it is."

Couldn't that also represent them discovering fundamental truths about the world they're in? Wouldn't that be more interesting than just: "I screw. Gimme a bonus."

Yes.

EDIT: The psychic maelstrom is a unique part of the setting, embedding it in a special character bonus makes it something that impacts all the character's choices. To use it or not. If you do, how to deal with the consequences. That's far more interesting than just sex.

Quote from: two_fishes;505387They didn't compel us to describe the events in lurid detail.

I don't care. The mechanic itself is just kinda skeevy.

And it misses a great chance to explore the setting, or the characters, or the role they've chosen to assume. All of those rock.

Missing all of them, in favor of "I fuck. How do my numbers get better?" is a mistake.

Quote from: two_fishes;505387It was a small but worthwhile addition.

It could have been better. And far less skeevy.

Nor am I interested in bothering with someone whose mind is made up and dismisses anything that contradicts his priors. But fine. All sorts of mechanics in the game emhasize the scarcity of resources in the setting. I played a hardholder and this was all over the place. The struggle to provide for the hardhold was a big driver of the play. This incuded the sex moves. Just as I said in my first response, the sex moves made sex into a commodity and made it more difficult to make uncompromised human connections.

The inclusion of sex moves just reinforce that the game is Swiney.

Quote from: B.T.;505404The inclusion of sex moves just reinforce that the game is Swiney.

You just do not understand the genius. I blame the White Wolf games that broke your mind, or your Gamist agenda.

I hazard a guess that sex isn't a resource. Salt, sure. Diodes? Absolutely. Fuck, wet-wipes. Perhaps.

Quote from: One Horse Town;505406I hazard a guess that sex isn't a resource. Salt, sure. Diodes? Absolutely. Fuck, wet-wipes. Perhaps.

Well, it can be used to magically generate salt, diodes, wet - wipes of what have you, as it's hardholder's bonus from having sex - he can "summon" 1 - barter as a gift to the character he just had sex with.

Quote from: One Horse Town;505406I hazard a guess that sex isn't a resource. Salt, sure. Diodes? Absolutely. Fuck, wet-wipes. Perhaps.

Like I said. Whatever.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;505401EDIT: The psychic maelstrom is a unique part of the setting, embedding it in a special character bonus makes it something that impacts all the character's choices. To use it or not. If you do, how to deal with the consequences. That's far more interesting than just sex.

In fact, that's so interesting that I'm thinking of ways to include it in my "Storm Knights" campaign.

Hmm....

Well, i guess we come back to the unanswered question. Where in the PA genre is 'sex moves' a trope?

Rincewind suggested Zombie Strippers. Then again, i don't think that 1 movie is a trend, let alone a trope.

Where's your emulation then?