Ah. I'm seeing the basic problem here.

There's a fundamental difference between:

"This game is pretentious, offensive shit." That's criticism.

and

"This game is pretentious, offensive shit that they made," using said pretentious, offensive shit as a means of earning points against them. That's moralising against them.

I'm deeply critical of this game. The OP is not. He's critical of them.

Hey so J Arcane, whoever you are, who are "they" anyway? The Swedes?

Quote from: Warthur;350007If none of the participants has ever been raped, then none of the participants in the exercise can really say "I know what it is like to be raped". And if one of the participants has been raped, I can't see how playing this jeepform through could be anything other than deeply harmful and traumatic.

Does the fact that we can never truly know what it means to be a bat necessarily invalidate attempts to understand how a bat perceives the world?

Quote from: Paul B;349848I'll be sure to wag my disapproving finger at those damned boffer LARPers and SCAers next time they try and spread their filth.

Thanks for the tip!

Saying that an objection to this game is a disapproval of LARPING is like saying that an objection to gang rape is a disapproval of team sports. The objection is about the subject matter, not the mechanism, and the fact that some psycho-Swede felt the need to use the pretense of making a game in order for him and his idiot friends to have a legitimate outlet for their sick desire to engage in illegal activities.

There is no comparison between objections to this twisted crap and the over-reaction of many parents in the 80's to roleplaying games as tools of the devil.

And then the author's added insult to our intelligence by trying to imply that he created this to raise awareness of gang rape. That is like going on a shooting rampage to raise awareness of gun safety.  The term "jeepform" should refer to the act of making the players of this tripe line up so they can get run over with a f'ing Jeep.

Now I feel the need to go back to the feminism thread to apologize to Tehana for saying that feminism has outlived its usefulness.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;350010Does the fact that we can never truly know what it means to be a bat necessarily invalidate attempts to understand how a bat perceives the world?

We can speculate. But running around in a dark room squeaking at each other isn't going to give us any new insight we don't already have.

Quote from: Grimjack;350011And then the author's added insult to our intelligence by trying to imply that he created this to raise awareness of gang rape. That is like going on a shooting rampage to raise awareness of gun safety.

Surely it's more like pretending to go on a shooting rampage.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;350000Ugh. Could we keep this focused, rather than generalizing, please? And maybe with fewer insults? That'd be cool.

This could be an interesting discussion of the perception of morality, or it could devolve into a flamefest. We have enough of the latter. Maybe a useful and constructive conversation would be a nice change of pace?

Exactly what purpose would that serve, besides giving you the ego boost from having played white knight for some amoral jackass with severe mommy issues?

He's already decided I'm the living embodiment of some dead movement, despite knowing not a goddamn thing about me or my history, or even, it seems, the reality of the situation he's so eager to project on my frame.

Why should I give him the tiniest ounce of respect, when it's obvious he has none for anyone but himself.

Never play the hero for people who don't want to be saved, it usually bites you in the ass at the end of the day.

Quote from: Halfjack;350016Surely it's more like pretending to go on a shooting rampage.

Thanks for the clarification cousin Halfjack.  You are correct.

Quote from: J Arcane;350020Exactly what purpose would that serve, besides giving you the ego boost from having played white knight for some amoral jackass with severe mommy issues?

...oh, right, we're on the 'tubes.

Fine, then, keep being a jackass. I'd just like to see useful conversation, for once, rather than the bullshit you all keep shoveling at each other back and forth.

Heaven forbid a messageboard have some useful content.

The idea that I have a horse in this race is somewhat hilarious. I read these boards infrequently, and post even more infrequently.

QuoteHe's already decided I'm the living embodiment of some dead movement, despite knowing not a goddamn thing about me or my history, or even, it seems, the reality of the situation he's so eager to project on my frame.

Not going to disagree that AM is a jackass a large amount of the time. So two wrongs make a right, now?

QuoteNever play the hero for people who don't want to be saved, it usually bites you in the ass at the end of the day.

I don't need your jaded "wisdom" any more than I need an "ego boost" from "white knighting" someone.

WTF does AM have to do with anything?  I don't see him posting in this thread?

Bottom line is, I'll post how I bloody like, it's the reason I post here and not on some utopia of forced politeness like RPGnet, so if you don't like it, why not just skip the post instead of presuming to give me instructions on how I do so.

I have no interest in playing pretend polite with gang rapists or their supporters.

Quote from: J Arcane;350025WTF does AM have to do with anything?  I don't see him posting in this thread?

So I mistakenly forgot that we were talking about someone else. (My prior post edited, J Arcane isn't crazy.)

I still made other valid points. Are you going to respond to them, or just conveniently ignore them?...

Quote from: J Arcane;350025Bottom line is, I'll post how I bloody like, it's the reason I post here and not on some utopia of forced politeness like RPGnet, so if you don't like it, why not just skip the post instead of presuming to give me instructions on how I do so.

Let me ask you a question. Let's say I go into a family diner, say around dinner, and start swearing at the top of my lungs. There's no rule clearly posted, anywhere, indicating that this is against any sort of rules of the establishment. But I am getting funny looks from the kids and irritated looks from their parents and the waitstaff.

I'm going to look like a jackass. I am a jackass, in this scenario.

Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean you should. Jesus, dude, how do you get along with people? I mean, I'm all for doing what you will, but... damn.

QuoteI have no interest in playing pretend polite with gang rapists or their supporters.

I don't understand your complete unwillingness to even investigate the question. You can contemplate things, their reasons for being and their ramifications, without supporting them.

I'm not even asking you to play devil's advocate, here. Just... some kind of actual argument for your position would be cool.

What special version of this board have you been reading?  Or do you just have a very large ignore list.  Because I don't see your analogy as remotely comparable to the situation, unless you append it to include, say, the diner manager who routinely screams obscenities at his customers, the cook who shits in the waffle batter, and a wait staff that routinely pours hot coffee on it's patrons simply for the fun of it.

You're making this place out to be some magical land of niceness and light, and I'm just the evil bastard ruining it for everyone, but even in this thread that's not what happened.  I'm not the one who started in with the kneejerk attacks in this thread, I just posted something I found on 4chan that even 4chan thought was fucked up, and I thought given past discussions that the userbase here would be interested in it, simply as a target to point and mock like so many similarly ridiculous pieces of shit that have come before.    

I was insulted, I responded in turn.  I've never been big on "turn the other cheek", I leave that to the carpenters.  I was named for John the Baptist, and he had a far different way of dealing with people.  

There's nothing to "investigate" here.  It's a pretentious piece of twaddle deliberately designed to be as offensive and unpleasant as possible, by the designers own admission.  I probably would've even ignored it, but the author's weak attempts to shield his name through codewords and clandestine distribution methods was amusing to me, so I took it as a challenge.  

I don't think any argument needs to be made that the thing is a gross affront to basic taste, and while I expected it, it still baffles me that some people apparently lack even that.  I don't know what kind of fucked up social circles some of you people run in, but the ones I do would have zero interest in this, and probably reconsider their willingness to associate with anyone who seriously suggested we play it.  And I wouldn't remotely see them as wrong for doing so.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;350027Let me ask you a question. Let's say I go into a family diner, say around dinner, and start swearing at the top of my lungs. There's no rule clearly posted, anywhere, indicating that this is against any sort of rules of the establishment. But I am getting funny looks from the kids and irritated looks from their parents and the waitstaff.

In fact, no.  You would be kicked out of the establishment, and likely instructed to never come back.  The police would be called, if necessary.  A family diner is a private establishment, and they can kick you out for just about any reason at all.  They have the right to refuse service on any number of justifiably legal grounds.  And the police would haul you away for disturbing the peace.

Quote from: J Arcane;350031What special version of this board have you been reading?  Or do you just have a very large ignore list.  Because I don't see your analogy as remotely comparable to the situation, unless you append it to include, say, the diner manager who routinely screams obscenities at his customers, the cook who shits in the waffle batter, and a wait staff that routinely pours hot coffee on it's patrons simply for the fun of it.

Thanks for running with the analogy!

I don't keep ignore lists, they irk me. Even people who piss me off constantly say something useful every now and again - that and I usually forget why I had them on there in the first place.

QuoteYou're making this place out to be some magical land of niceness and light, and I'm just the evil bastard ruining it for everyone...

In retrospect, it does sound like I'm singling you out; my apologies, that was not the intention.

You must admit, though, that you are more... direct, than a lot of other folk around here. Your posts do have a tendency to attract attention.

QuoteI was insulted, I responded in turn.  I've never been big on "turn the other cheek", I leave that to the carpenters.  I was named for John the Baptist, and he had a far different way of dealing with people.  

I recognize the name from Christian mythology, but I'm not terribly familiar with the individual beyond that.

I could tell you what I see as a problem with responding to insults in kind, but I imagine you already know what I'd say, so I'll leave it be.

QuoteThere's nothing to "investigate" here.  It's a pretentious piece of twaddle deliberately designed to be as offensive and unpleasant as possible, by the designers own admission.

But see, that raises even more questions! Why was it made in the first place, if even the designers say it's offensive and horrible?

That doesn't raise even a tiny bit of interest? Not in the game itself, but in the thought processes that went into it?

QuoteI don't think any argument needs to be made that the thing is a gross affront to basic taste, and while I expected it, it still baffles me that some people apparently lack even that.

"Basic" taste is not so "basic," much like common sense is not so common.

Intent matters, which is partly why I'm interested in the thought processes that went into it's creation. It is a rather disturbing subject matter... so why do it?

QuoteI don't know what kind of fucked up social circles some of you people run in, but the ones I do would have zero interest in this, and probably reconsider their willingness to associate with anyone who seriously suggested we play it.  And I wouldn't remotely see them as wrong for doing so.

Hmm. I'd ask you to not make presumptions about me from anything I say here, because I will - very often - play devil's advocate. I don't know if you included me in your "some of you people," but the instant you start attributing things to me personally rather than the arguments I make is when I start getting rather agitated. So kindly don't do it.

That aside, I, too, would be disturbed by anyone in my social circle who recommended we play this. I'm not interested in discussing the game itself, or even playing it. I'm interested in the reactions to it, and the thought processes behind them, as well as the thought processes that went into the design of the game.

Quote from: StormBringer;350034

Man, sometimes, you just gotta run with it, you know?