Quote from: One Horse Town;349936Coined by Gareth Micheal Skarka (GMS on this forum), it is thusly paraphrased: "In internet discourse, no matter how fucked up the subject matter, there will always be someone around to defend it."

Around here, there could also be the Pundit Variant: "Any position the pundit takes on a subject will inevitably lead to several of his professional detractors taking the opposite position, even if doing so demands defending the most unthinkably disgusting or evil ideas".

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;349966Around here, there could also be the Pundit Variant: "Any position the pundit takes on a subject will inevitably lead to several of his professional detractors taking the opposite position, even if doing so demands defending the most unthinkably disgusting or evil ideas".

RPGPundit

Do the nails in your hands hurt? Have you gotten any slivers from the wood?

Sometimes it seems your really do think IT is all about you.

Hint - IT is not about you.

Well, if it wasn't before, it is now.  Does this mean that the thread can officially be moved to "Pundit's Own Forum"?

!i!

Hey, so let's get real for a sec.

Anyone here go through the BADD old days? Show of hands please. Thank you.

Ever have a red-faced housewife show up on your parents' doorstep and demand they talk about your immoral, Satanic habits? Ever have your shit taken away from you because, well, all the other parents thought it was a good idea? And did having your shit taken from you save your soul? Your morality?

Here's the thing. Self-righteous moralists are never in it for the saving. Never. Ever. They don't give a flying fuck about protecting anyone from anything. They're self-righteous moralists because it's a way to earn points, to draw lines, to win some specious fight you didn't even know you were in.

So when I see some kneejerk moralist going off on something so utterly irrelevant, that's what's happening: They're at it again. Them. Oh please just fucking shoot me already, it's 1985 all over again.

For the record, since reading comprehension seems to be at an all-time low (either in this thread or on this board in general), I've never actually stated my opinion on this piece. Go ahead, check the record. I'll wait. Are you done?

If you were curious -- and if you were, you'd have asked me -- I personally think the gang rape thing is fucked up. But whatever. Who cares? Parents shouldn't -- they're the ones responsible for instilling values into their kids, not some misguided, pretentious "game" creator. Gamers worried about how a "gang rape gang" will make roleplaying look? OH PLEASE: first off, generating a dozen pages of talk about it means you've just given this piece of shit more traction than the last few FtA! threads gave that game; second off, gamers have way more pressing issues with image than an obscure experimental RPing exercise actually played by...tens of people.

Please, for fuck's sake, just read. Ask me questions! But don't you go putting bullshit into my mouth that I never said.

And the kneejerk moralists can blow me. You're serving nobody but yourselves.

Quote from: Paul BHey, so let's get real for a sec...

I detect a hint of irritation with moral systems.

Quote from: Paul B;349985And the kneejerk moralists can blow me. You're serving nobody but yourselves.

Did you get a chance to set up a session of this jeepform at your local FLGS yet?

Having your son commit suicide and thinking it was caused by a game is kneejerk moralism?  That's more misguided than kneejerk, methinks.

That aside, I'm admiring the irony of a person having a kneejerk reaction to kneejerk "moralists".  Let's all jerk our knees on the internets.

Quote from: StormBringer;349991Did you get a chance to set up a session of this jeepform at your local FLGS yet?

Why on earth would I? I have no interest at all in spending my time playing through this piece of pretentious crap.

This is that reading comprehension thing again, isn't it?

someone doth protest too much, methinks.

My mother WAS one of those people.  I got "banned" from playing RPGs for about a month when a friend made the mistake of mentioning we'd played D&D at the house. It was stupid, and ignorant, and had nothing really to do with reality, and it also didn't really work either.

None of this means I have to suspend all sense of basic taste or propriety, or that I should want to share my hobby space with a bunch of fucking perverts who're determined to drag the form into very real mud, following in the footsteps of furry cons before them only this time with more pretention.  There is no logical connection between those two events at all.

Frankly, "Paul B", whoever you are, you can take your pathetic Internet generation amorality and shove it where the sun don't shine.  Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism, or open mockery, or disgust.  If you broadcast your filth to the world, don't be surprised when people call you out on it.

Quote from: J Arcane;349997Frankly, "Paul B", whoever you are, you can take your pathetic Internet generation amorality and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Ugh. Could we keep this focused, rather than generalizing, please? And maybe with fewer insults? That'd be cool.

This could be an interesting discussion of the perception of morality, or it could devolve into a flamefest. We have enough of the latter. Maybe a useful and constructive conversation would be a nice change of pace?

So you don't see the irony of that, J Arcane, whoever you are?

Quote from: GnomeWorks;350000Ugh. Could we keep this focused, rather than generalizing, please? And maybe with fewer insults? That'd be cool.

This could be an interesting discussion of the perception of morality, or it could devolve into a flamefest. We have enough of the latter. Maybe a useful and constructive conversation would be a nice change of pace?

Aw, where the fun in that? It might lead to, you know, understanding and common ground and all that happy hippy horseshit.

DEATH BY FIRE.

:rolleyes:

Quote from: Paul B;349994Why on earth would I? I have no interest at all in spending my time playing through this piece of pretentious crap.

This is that reading comprehension thing again, isn't it?

But, it shouldn't be a problem, right?  I mean, you don't even really have to play, you can just organize the event and let us know how it turned out.  I am sure the average game store customer will be swayed by your cogent moral argument when you explain that you are hosting a event that simulates the aftermath of gang rape.

OK, here's my take:

It's pretty clear to me, from reading the thing, that the jeepform here isn't meant to be some idle entertainment or jolly lark. Quite the opposite. It's meant to be a carefully managed and guided exploration of serious issues, between a group of people who mutually trust each other, with the intent of helping everyone learn about an issue, raise awareness of it, and challenge their own assumptions. These guys do not think rape is cool: precisely the opposite. As far as goals go, raising awareness of such an issue is a noble one.

The question I'd have is this: what's the point of doing it as a game?

I can't see what the participants would get out of this exercise which they couldn't just take away from an open and honest discussion about the topic. You can't pretend that one's experiences in even the most immersive of LARPs is in any sense comparable to actually being raped or participating in a rape - to pretend you enjoy a deeper understanding of rape victims because you played a game once is just plain offensive. All you end up learning about in this exercise is how the participants (and, to an extent, the designer) feels about the subject. And if you wanted to learn that, why not just ask 'em?

If none of the participants has ever been raped, then none of the participants in the exercise can really say "I know what it is like to be raped". And if one of the participants has been raped, I can't see how playing this jeepform through could be anything other than deeply harmful and traumatic.

Bottom line: this is an exercise intended for education, not entertainment. On that basis some might question the application of the word "game" to it - I note that they avoid using the term themselves - and it certainly shouldn't be compared with recreational RPGs on that basis. As far as educational tools for teaching people about rape goes, it seems dubious at best.