Quote from: One Horse Town;351617You brought up freedom of speech in this thread. It's irrelevant. Everyone has been expressing it - the people who authored the game, and the people in this thread.

Quite right.


"Freedom of speech" does not guarantee that the speech will be listened to by an adoring audience, or even an audience. It also is not a shield against being mocked, ridiculed, dissected, or ignore.

The non-game"game" everyone is talking about is getting disparaged and mocked - as it should be for the piece of excrement idea that it is.
Thats also a part of "Freedom of Speech!!"


- Ed C.

Nope, I'm too pissed off to be emo. I just don't GET emo hate.

Quote from: shalvayez;351534Allow the scum to speak, flip em off when they do, and shoot them when they act upon the bullshit they speak.
 
   Furthermore, how is one supposed to know if this is a roleplayed gangrape or real? I mean, if I see somebody getting assaulted like this, my first reaction would be to start swinging a crowbar at the assailants.

The game document, as posted in the OP, is extremely specific about the fact that the rape itself isn't actually played out LARP-style. It's basically narrated by the participants in the abstract. If you came across some people playing the "rape" phase of the game, it'd just look like some people sitting down and talking to each other. The subject matter would sound fucking creepy if you were close enough to overhear it, but it certainly wouldn't be grounds for going in swinging.

I don't like this game. There's plenty of reasons to object to this game without departing from the facts entirely. I'm not trying to defend GR against the very real and well-founded objections against it, all I'm saying is that people's objections against the game look a hell of a lot weaker if they actually fly in the face of what's written there.

Quote from: One Horse Town;351617You can throw those dismissive stones of yours as much as you like

More to the point, OHT, I didn't find that answering to you was something to lose sleep over. :rolleyes:

Quote from: David R;351615It seems clear to me (and I have been known to be wrong) that freedom of speech of any kind was not threatened here.

OK, now I think I see where the confusion came from. I was not implying that FoS was threatened here - far from this

But I brought up the matter (and freedom of thought) after discovering how the posting of the rulebook could have been a violation both of copyright and privacy. Being this the case, the "they must be denounced!" justification doesn't hold water: they are protected in their imagined, private activities for the very same reason we are in ours (killing people, evoking demons...) by the freedom of speech (and though) rights.

I felt important to underline this, when expressing my opinions on the matter, because speaking from a moral high horse about something not illegal after committing an illegal act is really not my cup of tea. Others' opinion may vary.

EDITS: My EnGRish is what it is...

Quote from: shalvayez;351621Nope, I'm too pissed off to be emo. I just don't GET emo hate.

Emos are like furries, Goths and Trekkies. People who dress ridiculously but take themselves seriously are inherently comical. And emos take themselves very, very seriously. Thus we point and laugh.

Plus with emos there's the whole overlap with the angst-ridden adolescent thing, "oh I'm from such a pampered middle-class background and have never known anything vaguely resembling real suffering, woe is me." Which is always fun to laugh at.

Hatred and mockery overlap, but are not the same thing.

Quote from: ReckallI brought up the matter (and freedom of thought) after discovering how the posting of the rulebook could have been a violation both of copyright and privacy.

I find it hard to summon up righteous indignation for copyright violations of things which are of little or no aesthetic or informative value. If someone pirates Calculus 101 or Citizen Kane, as dull as I find them both, I recognise their aesthetic or informative value, and it seems wrong.

But if someone pirates pr0n... honestly, who cares. Likewise with, say, copies of Da Vinci Code. Copyright violation dilutes the value of a thing. But when it had no value to begin with... So if people pirate Gang Rape: the rpg or Poison'd or FATAL or Sorcerer, well I say "what on Earth for? But oh well, go for it."

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;351720.....or Citizen Kane, as dull as I find them.....

:eek:

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;351723:eek:

Regards,
David R

"ditto".

 Citizen Kane is a damn good movie.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Reckall;351718More to the point, OHT, I didn't find that answering to you was something to lose sleep over. :rolleyes:

Have i personally pissed in your breakfast cereal or something?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;351613The difference between us and the Forgers, Reckall, is that we're right and they're wrong.

Ah, well, no s**t

[Snip on a lot of thoughts about the Forgers]

In my experience, they are a most interesting phenomenon (for various reasons, none related to gaming). They have an unique way to mistake their own experiences (which I respect) for those of the whole wide world (which is delusional). Almost everything in the way they act can be explained by this simple observation.

Back in the day, when "The Forge" was just a new buzzword on Italian RPG forums, I was genuinely interested in these "new ideas". I'm always are. I was stopped cold maybe five minutes into my foray by what I feel still being the key principle sprouted by Edwards:

"No wonder people either idealize or vilify their youthful experiences playing D&D."

[...]

"In other words, you remember it fondly not because the game itself was good, but because it wasn't"

I.e.: "What I experienced, you experienced too".

Which made the rest totally unuseful, but, in turn, became an help to understand the whole phenomenon: when someone with this outlook describes something (from a gaming experience to someone else who disagrees with him) he is usually describing himself.

What happened then (I want to underline that I'm still theorizing) is that a lot of people who shared Edwards' negative experiences flocked to him. Which is still fine with me: new ideas are born this way.

The unfortunate side-effect was that a critical mass of people sharing the belief that what was true for them was true in an absolute sense found themselves together. The results are known.

However:

QuoteA game's purpose in existence is to be played. If no-one will join you in playing it, the game is meaningless, and may as well not exist. Likewise, if no-one is interested in your playstyle and you never game, your opinion on gaming is meaningless.

I fully agree with this principle. But, at least in my experience, it doesn't apply to all the games that came out from "The Forge". Case in point, I know a group of remarkable players (they wash, some of them are married, they like games ranging from Cthulhu Munchin to D&D 3.5, they like to have me as GM... ) who had a blast playing "Primetime Adventures". I personally found "Don't Rest Your Head"/"Don't Lose Your Mind" an interesting read that made me willing to try the game (maybe because I really like the "Kult/Silent Hill"-ish settings).

My superficial opinion re: DRYH is that its own specificity cannot really sustain a prolonged campaign. "Primetime Adventures", instead, has a really intriguing premise, and, from what I'm told, can be a way to whip together a fast 'n' furious mini-campaign in whatever setting fancies the gamers.

But, in speaking in a general sense, I still like more to judge a product by what it is, and not from the background it sprang from. Mostly because I don't know at all the background of the things I like. For what I know, my favorite game or piece of music could have been created by a rapist, or conceived during an orgy. Who cares?

QuoteGang Rape: the rpg is, it says, designed not to be fun, and therefore is not a game. It has no more relevance to gaming than a Men's Weekend away where we all get naked, bang on drums and wail in tears, "my father never loved me!" The use of our imaginations is part of gaming, but is not sufficient for gaming - especially when the only imaginative part is "in what way can we become more miserable?"

Which, I'm sorry, but begs even more the question "Why, then, a link to THE WHOLE BOOK was posted here?"

And more than that, why, in heaven, making something obscure and private totally public - thus giving it both a wider exposition and tons of free publicity?! As you said: "if no one is interested in your game, no one will play it". Scandal generates interest. You do the math.

QuoteI mean, the leader of the Forgers is a professor of bat penises.

Now, this is news to me! Do you have a link?

QuoteThis is the guy they rely on for profound insights into our hobby of pretending to be elven princesses while rolling dice and eating cheetos. A doctor of bat bollocks.

Quote from: One Horse Town;351727Have i personally pissed in your breakfast cereal or something?

No. I'm simply used to lose sleep over important things.

So let me get this straight. You pop into the thread and accuse me of 4 negative personality traits in a no-content ad hominem attack when i haven't even exhanged a word with you before that. When asked by David R why you are arguing about free speech, you ignore his question and continue to talk to shalvayez after that question was posed - but i'm the bad guy for calling you on it and accused of being a poopyhead again (whilst simultaneously you fib about being in bed - you were talking to shalvayez after David R's question, mate).

Then two more posts of being incredibly arrogant.

I can only assume there's some history here i don't know about or that you are harbouring some kind of wierd grudge over something i may have said 3 years ago or something.

Granted, this place attracts this kind of behaviour, but usually there's some reason for it. I'm baffled with this one.

Quote from: One Horse Town;351739I'm baffled with this one.

This happens, mostly, because you are still not reading the thread.

Quote from: Reckall;351743This happens, mostly, because you are still not reading the thread.

Dude, I just read all 23 pages, and I'm STILL trying to figure out what windmill you're tilting at...

Quote from: kythri;351745Dude, I just read all 23 pages, and I'm STILL trying to figure out what windmill you're tilting at...

At this point, given the changing of goalposts, being disingenuous whilst totally ignoring the fact that he is the originator of an argument that is irrelevant and somehow thinking that any and/or all posts are directed at him, i think it is safe to say that he isn't worth reading.

Haven't used this function since CavScout.