Ernest Gary Gygax's and Benoist's collaboration module went on Kickstarter today.  Even though Benoist had a bit of a falling out here, I figure you guys might want to know about this.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1709227718/ernest-gary-gygax-jrs-marmoreal-tomb-campaign-star

Thanks for spreading the word, Brasidas!

I played most of the early variants of D&D, and I consider that I grew out of Keep on the Borderlands style games, just one room after another, filled with monsters hitting each other, with no rhyme or reason as to why they were there.

Don't get me wrong, I had a blast at the time, and wouldn't change a thing.

I also totally get why people 'grew out' of the bloat that affected (D&D) things down the line, resulting in a return to the good old days in the OSR.

 I like reading the rulesets, and I enjoy looking at the retro dungeons people have created over the past few years, even if I haven't rushed out to play them.


My question to you Benoist, other than this just being a big map with lots of monsters, what would you say is the appeal to someone like me, that would likely DM it for folks that HAVEN'T had those prior experiences?

I can probably sell it to those folks just with the huge grin on my face and my bubbling enthusiasm. But what's putting the grin on my face in the first place about this particular outing?

Quote from: Motorskills;845474I played most of the early variants of D&D, and I consider that I grew out of Keep on the Borderlands style games, just one room after another, filled with monsters hitting each other, with no rhyme or reason as to why they were there.

Hi Motorskills. Just noticed your comment!

In this particular case, there is a rhyme and reason for everything that's going on inside the Marmoreal Tomb, and everything that's happened before. There's a reason for the existence of the ancient Hearth of Chaos, a reason why the Stone Giants' burial vaults are built on top of the Hearth of Chaos, and a reason why Nester pointed this particular location out to the Stone-Cutter dwarves. And so on.

The dungeon also makes sense from a structural standpoint. Including for those corridors neatly aligned north and south.

Quote from: Motorskills;845474Don't get me wrong, I had a blast at the time, and wouldn't change a thing.

I also totally get why people 'grew out' of the bloat that affected (D&D) things down the line, resulting in a return to the good old days in the OSR.

 I like reading the rulesets, and I enjoy looking at the retro dungeons people have created over the past few years, even if I haven't rushed out to play them.

Excellent. So you can both mix that interest that makes you get the "old school" with what it is you want out of the game now, and bring that to the table for other people to enjoy. The Marmoreal Tomb should help you do that.

Quote from: Motorskills;845474My question to you Benoist, other than this just being a big map with lots of monsters, what would you say is the appeal to someone like me, that would likely DM it for folks that HAVEN'T had those prior experiences?

Well, first, to me, saying that, generally speaking, from a structural standpoint, a dungeon is just a big map with lots of monsters is like saying that a city map is just a big map with NPCs on it. It's technically true, and for some offerings that might summarize them well enough, but a properly done dungeon to me feels more like a microcosm where there are inhabitants, threats, challenges, and things happen around the PCs as they explore that huge labyrinthine place.

Now, if you are running the thing and get excited about it, you shouldn't worry about those folks who haven't had those experiences before, because ipso facto it'll all be new and exciting to them. So right then and there, provided you are yourself excited about the game, that excitement will shine through, and the newbies will plug onto that and enjoy the game.

It seems to me the real potential issue is you not getting excited about the setting, and I get that. I think there's a very, very strong, enduring appeal to the basic conceit of the game, which is the exploration game, where you go down the dungeon, the unknown, have total liberty of choice between turning left and right, and the goal of the game is to find treasure and survive. That's a very strong, simple premise that just works for millions of people, judging by the reach the D&D game had at one point.

Now, what you get with the Marmoreal Tomb Campaign Starter, the complete offering with the main module, the wilderness expansion and the underworld expansion is not 'just' a dungeon, no matter how lively and immersive the dungeon is. As I pointed out, we see the dungeon as a microcosm where things happen and the GM basically "role-plays the world", literally so, and under these conditions the dungeon shines through the GM.

What you get with the whole package deal is the dungeon AND the hex map of the entire region around, including descriptions of all the landmarks, potential adventuring locations, political areas, factions, etc etc, AND the village that can serve as the home base of the PCs between their exploration. If you remember Hommlet, you'll know a lot of role-playing can happen with that as well, and the Wilderness Expansion will describe that village, Crom Caemloch, thoroughly in order to role-play the NPCs in the village and so on.

What you get from the whole deal is this:

Quote from: Motorskills;845474I can probably sell it to those folks just with the huge grin on my face and my bubbling enthusiasm. But what's putting the grin on my face in the first place about this particular outing?

See the Campaign Starter as a toolkit that presents the region (Wilderness), with a basic module (Main Module), and an expansion to that module (Underworld). Now imagine you can use it however you want. You can run the original exploration game if you want. Or you can plug it into a general campaign arc that fits your vision for the game. You can use the whole, or its different parts separately from one another. You can drop the Marmoreal Tomb Main Module somewhere on the hex map, and then the Underworld Expansion somewhere else as a different adventure location in the campaign. You can use the hex map, but use a village of your own making, or dump the hex map, and integrate the village and dungeon(s) inside your own campaign world. Or you can use the general area of the Duinnsmere as a parallel material plane connected to your own, home-brew or published setting, via the area of the Wild, which is imbued with Chaos and blends between realities, connecting worlds with the substance of entropy.

You can do all of those things.

Does that address your question?

Great stuff, thanks!

Best of luck with this Kickstarter!

I see you made it already and congrats-

I will post it around a bit and spread the word.

Hey, Ben, good luck with this.
Also: level limits are bullshit. ; )

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;846448Best of luck with this Kickstarter!

I see you made it already and congrats-

I will post it around a bit and spread the word.

Thanks a lot J.L. That helps quite a bit. It's all about letting people know it exists. It's really the name of the game at this point so, thank you!

Quote from: Motorskills;846197Great stuff, thanks!

Happy to help!

Quote from: Aos;846478Hey, Ben, good luck with this.
Also: level limits are bullshit. ; )

Thanks mate. Also? Don't use them if you don't want to! Ah ah.

Just a word here to let you know guys and gals that the Kickstarter is cruising along, unlocking multiple stretch goals in the process.

1st edition compatible, 5th edition, Pathfinder, Castles & Crusades conversions, science-fiction and modern horror customization packs, fold-up maps pack, panels for a GM screen... the Marmoreal Tomb Campaign Starter just keeps getting better and better!

Check it out: http://bit.ly/hsd-ks

Right now for $60 on Ernie Gygax's Marmoreal Tomb kickstarter you get:
Print +PDF of the Marmoreal Tomb Main Module
Print +PDF of the Wilderness Expansion
Print +PDF of the Underworld Expansion
Your name in the credits
+ Map of the Crypts
+ Map of the Tunnels under Crom Caemloch
+ Full Bestiary Appendices

That's approximately EIGHT times the amount of material presented in Gygax Mag (the first level of the Marmoreal Tomb pictured below), with the Outdoor Wilderness map (my re-creation of that board that was advised for use with the little brown booklets) about to be unlocked as well! And it just gets better from there!



The link to the KS: http://bit.ly/hsd-ks

Benoist-

A lot of interest over at Kenzer, I shot you a PM. And if that didn't work cast a summons.

58K as of this writing. Congrats!

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;849337Benoist-

A lot of interest over at Kenzer, I shot you a PM. And if that didn't work cast a summons.

58K as of this writing. Congrats!

Thanks! $74K as of this writing. DCC RPG and now players' handouts have been unlocked. We are unlocking stretch goals steadily!

There are 6 days to go on this Kickstarter project. If you haven't pledged already, anyone of you RPG Site members, and want to get the module and campaign starter for the Hobby Shop Dungeon, consider doing it ASAP!

Quote from: Benoist;851295Thanks! $74K as of this writing. DCC RPG and now players' handouts have been unlocked. We are unlocking stretch goals steadily!

There are 6 days to go on this Kickstarter project. If you haven't pledged already, anyone of you RPG Site members, and want to get the module and campaign starter for the Hobby Shop Dungeon, consider doing it ASAP!

Congrats!

Quote from: J.L. Duncan;851743Congrats!

Thumbs up! Thank you!

FOUR days to go on the Kickstarter folks! We are entering the end game!

Link to the project: http://bit.ly/hsd-ks

Trying to recuperate after a few nights with little to no sleep, a good celebration yesterday, and already thinking of our next kickstarter update, and the way forward for the project!

Thank you all for your support and pledges. MUCH appreciated!