Quote from: Serious PaulI'm curious then, are they a majority of the population here in the United States or are they just a "really big group"?

I'm inclined to say the latter (as indicated in my comments above), but I don't have the figures handy to prove it.  I'd also like to see the demographics of these self-proclaimed church-goers and fundamentalists to see where they're concentrated.  It's certainly not an even distribution across the nation.

!i!

According to the Pew survey in 2002, 59% of Americans claimed that religion was an "very important factor in their lives", making it the only country in the developed world where a MAJORITY of the respondents chose "very important" (in comparison, the UK was 33%, Canada was 30%, France was only 11%). 83% of the population claimed to practice some form of Christianity.

According to a recent Gallup poll, 41% of Americans claimed to practice regular church attendance, compared to 25% in Israel, 15% of the French, or only 7% in the UK.

RPGPundit

Americans are mostly a religious people, and I think that's a GOOD THING.

Quote from: ZalmoxisAmericans are mostly a religious people, and I think that's a GOOD THING.

Except when it's a BAD THING, of course.

!i!

Quote from: ZalmoxisAmericans are mostly a religious people, and I think that's a GOOD THING.

I don't.

Sometimes people use religion to keep themselves from doing Bad Things. It's like when Commander Adams told Morbius in "Forbidden Planet" "We're all part monsters in out subconscious, so we have laws, and religion!"

That was a very true line, and a very daring one form the 1950's hollywood. If FR hadn't been "scifi" I think it's writers would have been blacklisted as commies over the implication that religion was a tool humans used to control themselves,  and not the absolute true word of god.

But other people use religion badly. They use it as an excuse to do Bad Things, like when Fred Phelps says god wants him to tormet the families of murdered gay kids and dead soldiers, or when some iranian mullah says that salman rishdie must die for writing the satanic verses.

All religions are false constructs humans create to deal with existance. Some of them get used constructively, others get used destructively, just like everything els ehumanity creates.

Quote from: RPGPunditAccording to the Pew survey in 2002, 59% of Americans claimed that religion was an "very important factor in their lives", making it the only country in the developed world where a MAJORITY of the respondents chose "very important" (in comparison, the UK was 33%, Canada was 30%, France was only 11%). 83% of the population claimed to practice some form of Christianity.

According to a recent Gallup poll, 41% of Americans claimed to practice regular church attendance, compared to 25% in Israel, 15% of the French, or only 7% in the UK.

RPGPundit

Religion covers a lot of ground here. Are we discussing solely christians, or all religions?

Also can we get a link to this survey? I'm just curious as to their methodology.

As an aside, let me pick 100 people I know. I bet I could come up with 99 atheists!

Could I just answer the title of the thread ?

 Q: Why are atheists so Anti-religion?

 A: They aren't.... really.

 The atheists that cruise the chatboards and forums mnight be vERY 'anti-religion", but most of the atheists that the average person meets in daily life - don't even talk about it  - if at all.

- E.W.C.

My new favorite hysterical term from Pundit:

"Jesus-freaks in positions of power"

Now back to your regularly scheduled Christian-bashing...

Quote from: James J SkachMy new favorite hysterical term from Pundit:

"Jesus-freaks in positions of power"

Now back to your regularly scheduled Christian-bashing...

I don't know where he gets the idea that Bush is some snake-handling Pentecostal. For someone who has a degree in, and teaches about, religion, he knows passing little about the American scene. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bush is a Methodist. Methodists are damn-near Atheists, except they have to get up for church on Sunday. The only difference between Methodists and CoE is that the churches in England are older.

Now, if he were a Southern Baptist, then he might have a point.

Quote from: WerekoalaThe only difference between Methodists and CoE is that the churches in England are older.

Oh, the Anglicans have much better ceremony, I can assure you.  Well, at least the trappings are nicer.  But, yeah, the Methodistas are a real snore.

!i!

Bush's Methodism does seem to lean to the more evangelical side of the sect though. He's not a fundamentalist or a charismatic admittedly, which does make the "Jesus Freak" label a little ridiculous.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineBush's Methodism does seem to lean to the more evangelical side of the sect though. He's not a fundamentalist or a charismatic admittedly, which does make the "Jesus Freak" label a little ridiculous.

What evidence is there that this is so? Because he says "God" in public from time to time? Because liberals SAY he's a Jesus Freak who speaks in tongues (and not just during his public speeches)?

And if there's an evangelical side to the Methodist Church, I've yet to see it, aside from their new soft-focus TV ad campaign.

My take: Its all just more unfounded attacks on either a) a religion someone dosn't like, b) a President someone dosn't like, or more likely c) both.

Quote from: WerekoalaAnd if there's an evangelical side to the Methodist Church, I've yet to see it...

Regrettably, I could introduce you to a few of my less-favored relatives.  I think that their "evangelical" nature is more politically motivated, though, as is the fervor of their chosen congregations.  Sad, but true.

!i!

Quote from: WerekoalaWhat evidence is there that this is so? Because he says "God" in public from time to time? Because liberals SAY he's a Jesus Freak who speaks in tongues (and not just during his public speeches)?

And if there's an evangelical side to the Methodist Church, I've yet to see it, aside from their new soft-focus TV ad campaign.

My take: Its all just more unfounded attacks on either a) a religion someone dosn't like, b) a President someone dosn't like, or more likely c) both.

Wesleyanism, the intellectual foundation of Methodism, is also the basis of the evangelical movement. Methodism is basically Episcopalianism/Anglicanism plus evangelicalism. You're probably thinking of the charismatics with the "speaking in tongues" stuff. Evangelicalism is a fairly mainstream, if somewhat conservative, movement within Protestant Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

Bush's evangelicalism is most clear in his emphasis on a personal testament of faith (His conversation narrative focusing on his recovery from irresponsible use of alcohol being a famous example) and in his belief that Christian moral principles and values have a relevance to the political conduct of the nation (as opposed to the private conduct of individuals). His emphasis on faith-based groups and his opposition to abortion are two examples of this belief in practice.

To be fair, Bush's views on Biblical inerrancy aren't known and it could turn out that he has a more liberal view on that issue, but even if he held that the Bible was "mostly right", I still think the balance of evidence shows him to fall within the broad tent of evangelicalism.

I am inclined to agree that mentions of Bush's evangelical beliefs serve generally rhetorical purposes rather than substantive ones. For one thing, most people don't distinguish between "charismatic", "fundamentalist" and "evangelical", so any use of the three terms tends to conjure up the most extreme behaviours of charismatic and fundamentalist Christians and then condemn through association. It's a low trick to pull in a discussion or disputation.