TheRPGSite

The Lounge => Media and Inspiration => Topic started by: Silverlion on February 22, 2007, 07:04:46 PM

Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Silverlion on February 22, 2007, 07:04:46 PM
Seriously guys. This what this forum looks like at the moment--just like Tangency.

I think its time to get rid of any illusions you have about being different (or any smug sense of "blaming tangency" over there for so much bad.) when some are repeating the same behaviors here.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Mr. Analytical on February 22, 2007, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: SilverlionI think its time to get rid of any illusions you have about being different (or any smug sense of "blaming tangency" over there for so much bad.) when some are repeating the same behaviors here.

  Bullying?  it comes up on pretty much every forum sooner or later. This place and tangency are mild compared to my usual forum where some guy set up a secret second board, invited only people he deemed "creative and intelligent" and then orchestrated campaigns of bullying against particular posters.

  The whole thing only came to a head when someone infiltrated the second forum and sent the admin of the first forum transcripts from the second forum.

  ...and the place was a similar size to this.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: droog on February 22, 2007, 07:13:07 PM
It is looking a bit Tangential. That's it – no more off-topic for me for a month.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Gabriel on February 22, 2007, 07:30:22 PM
No.  It's not really like Tangency.  The main difference is that I don't see an entirely different cast of posters when I come in here than when I read the RPG forum.

Of course, I do definitely see signs of Tangencyism.  I'm especially disturbed by the "calling out" threads of the "hey, you're a bigoted asshole and should die" variety.  Hopefully, if things get bad the section will be removed.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Werekoala on February 22, 2007, 07:58:47 PM
It won't be like Tangency until someone gets permabanned for not agreeing with the "clique".

 THEN it'll be like Tangency.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: David R on February 22, 2007, 08:01:25 PM
Quote from: GabrielNo.  It's not really like Tangency.  The main difference is that I don't see an entirely different cast of posters when I come in here than when I read the RPG forum.

Good point.

I think there is a lot of off topic stuff floating around because of the kinds of threads on the Pundit's own forum. So maybe this gives the illusion that there is a lot of non-rpgs discussions going on.

Regards,
David R
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Akrasia on February 22, 2007, 08:05:17 PM
Quote from: WerekoalaIt won't be like Tangency until someone gets permabanned for not agreeing with the "clique".

 THEN it'll be like Tangency.

QFT.

(As someone who's never been banned anywhere...)
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Zachary The First on February 22, 2007, 09:49:37 PM
Or it becomes larger than the RPG section of the site.

That day comes, I say shut the subforum down.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Mcrow on February 22, 2007, 10:12:46 PM
I also don't see people in the OT forum that have more posts in OT than the RPG forums.:D
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 22, 2007, 10:42:36 PM
Let's compare therpgsite with rpg.net in terms of threads and posts. We'll exclude subforums to do with forum feedback and help, game sales classifieds and open promotion, and articles.

therpgsite
Subforums mostly about gaming,
   Role-Playing Games  1,665 threads, 43,387 posts
Game Design and Theory Forum 232 threads, 7,331 posts
Electronic Games and Other Games 167 threads, 2,211 posts
The Official Amber DRPG and Erick Wujcik Fanforum 79 threads, 1,033 posts
The Craft of Gameplay (and Actual Play)  57 threads, 626 posts
Play by Post Games, 20 threads, 444 posts
Subforums mostly of other blather,
   Off Topic Discussion 664 threads, 9,560 posts
The RPGPundit's Own Forum 169 threads, 4,118 posts
Gaming talk: 2,220 threads, 54,132 posts, 24.4 posts/thread
Non-gaming talk: 833 threads, 13,678 posts, 16.4 posts/thread

So, on therpgsite there are 2.66 gaming threads for every non-gaming thread, and 3.96 as many posts about gaming as there are about non-gaming stuff; in addition, the individual gaming threads get 24.4 posts in response, while the non-gaming threads get 16.4 posts in response, or we can express it as, gaming threads get 1.49 as many posts in response as non-gaming threads.

rpg.net
Subforums mostly about gaming,
   Tabletop Roleplaying Open 79,202 threads, 2,021,680 posts
Live Action Roleplaying Open 320 threads,    3,963 posts
Roleplaying Actual Play 591 threads, 17,158 posts
Roleplay-by-Post 3,945 threads, 386,303 posts
Other Games Open 18,005 threads,    298,761 posts
Video Games Open 2,424 threads,    52,486 posts
Business/Publishing/Marketing  1,483 threads, 14,824 posts
The Art of Game Design    5,891 threads,    79,890 posts
Freelancing and Freelancers 6,016 threads,   59,379 posts
Gaming Gatherings 3,777 threads,    16,742 posts
   
Subforums mostly of other blather,
   Tangency Open    126,763 threads,   3,184,886 posts [thanks to someone who shall remain nameless for this number]
Other Media   22,947 threads,    526,171 posts
Gaming talk: 121,654 threads, 2,951,786 posts, or 24.26 posts/thread
Non-Gaming talk: 149,710 threads, 3,711,057 posts, or 24.78 posts/thread

So, on rpg.net there are 0.81 gaming threads for every non-gaming thread, and 0.80 as many posts about gaming as there are about non-gaming stuff; in addition, the non-gaming threads get slightly fewer posts in response than the gaming threads.

So, on therpgsite you are at any time 3.28 times as likely to see a new gaming thread rather than a non-gaming thread, compared to rpg.net. On rpg.net, the bulk of the action's in the non-gaming stuff - hell, there are more Tangency Open threads and posts than all the gaming talk forums put together!

When Off-Topic on therpgsite has more threads and posts to it than the rest of the site put together, and when you get as many responses to your non-gaming threads as your gaming threads, and when most of the rules of the site come from moderation in Off-Topic, then you can talk about it becoming another Tangency.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Dr Rotwang! on February 22, 2007, 11:16:55 PM
No Porn Monday, no Tangency.

Know Porn Monday, Know Tangency.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: J Arcane on February 22, 2007, 11:23:24 PM
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!No Porn Monday, no Tangency.

Know Porn Monday, Know Tangency.
I was always severely disappointed by the lack of actual porn on Porn Monday.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: David R on February 22, 2007, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: J ArcaneI was always severely disappointed by the lack of actual porn on Porn Monday.

Yeah and I'm amazed how some (most?) folks consider their personal lives porn. I mean polls for receiving/giving head, liberally sprinkled with lectures on sexuality...

Regards,
David R
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: RPGPundit on February 23, 2007, 01:10:43 AM
And note that Jimbob's stats consider the "Pundit's own Forum" to be "mostly not-RPG".  In reality, at LEAST 50% of the threads on there are rants about Gaming or RPG related stuff.

Consider that at the moment, the threads on the first page of that forum are:

RPG related: about 22
Not RPG related: about 8

So I'd say its pretty clear the "Pundit's Own" forum is a gaming forum, primarily.

RPGPundit
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Kyle Aaron on February 23, 2007, 01:29:29 AM
Quote from: RPGPunditAnd note that Jimbob's stats consider the "Pundit's own Forum" to be "mostly not-RPG".  In reality, at LEAST 50% of the threads on there are rants about Gaming or RPG related stuff.

Consider that at the moment, the threads on the first page of that forum are:

RPG related: about 22
Not RPG related: about 8
22:8 is 2.75:1, or very nearly the 2.66:1 gaming:non-gaming stats of therpgsite forum as I gave it. You could also argue that rpg.net's Other Media, a good number of the threads there end up being about gaming; or that a few of the Roleplaying threads here drift into real-world issues like religion and the Problem of Evil ("mereological essentialism", anyone?)

I didn't want to get into what this or that thread was, or these or those posts to particular threads. That's a little more work than I'm willing to do to demonstrate the point: therpgsite is predominantly (73% of threads, 80% of posts, counting RPGundit's forum as "non-gaming") about gaming, while rpg.net is predominantly not (45% of threads, and 44% of posts about gaming).

So in broad terms we can say that at the moment, in terms of actual posted content, therpgiste is three-quarters about gaming, while rpg.net is four-ninths, or less than half about gaming. I'd count that a significant difference. Imagine you have one game session of four hours one evening, and in one group there's two hours of gaming and two hours of other yabber, and in another group there's three hours of gaming and one of yabber - but both groups claim to be just as keen on gaming - which would you prefer? Of course, the second group has many more members, and a longer history, too, which may influence your decision.

The essence of Tangency as a negative influence on rpg.net is not the exact topics they bring up, or the tone of their discussion, but that it dominates the site. Off-Topic does not compare at all in that respect.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on February 23, 2007, 01:34:09 AM
Anna Nicole Smith, guns pro and con, Brittany Spears (sic), atheism.

Shut it down, please.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Koltar on February 23, 2007, 02:05:15 AM
Hell...even that RPG motivational poster thread has gone into the toilet.
 That thread used to be the one that hooked people into the Big Purple and pink.
I'll admit - some days I only look at that forum to see what Vipergrrl is talking about.
 She plays EXALTED , by-the-way...

- E.W.C.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Ned the Lonely Donkey on February 23, 2007, 04:15:04 AM
Quote from: RPGPunditSo I'd say its pretty clear the "Pundit's Own" forum is a gaming forum, primarily.

RPGPundit

Pfft!

Ned
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Mr. Analytical on February 23, 2007, 07:05:47 AM
Quote from: KoltarI'll admit - some days I only look at that forum to see what Vipergrrl is talking about.

EDIT : Actually, on second thoughts you probably have a reason for drawing attention to her either by being involved with her or actually being her so I'll keep quiet.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Balbinus on February 23, 2007, 07:27:07 AM
Hm, now I just need to find out how to upload photos of kittens and all will be complete.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: JongWK on February 23, 2007, 08:55:05 AM
All OT fora share certain traits, and that is unavoidable. Sooner or later, stuff like politics, religion or sports pop up, and people will talk about them. I don't see theRPGsite banning those topics in the nearby future, if you ask me. It's obvious that some threads are better than others, but that's up to personal tastes.

The real question is whether we can avoid the problems that plague places like Tangency. I think people like Gabriel, Werekoala and JimBobOz are correct in their assessments: we don't have two separate communities (gaming and OT), and there are far more gaming topics than OT ones. So far.

Dumpshock's profiles tell you which forum a user is most active in. James McMurray (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showuser=6957), for example, has 58% of his posts on the dedicated SR4 subforum. Blakkie (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showuser=3263) has 73% of his posts on that same board. I also post there, but so far the majority of my posts (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showuser=3992) (45%) have been on the general Shadowrun subforum.

I wonder if we couldn't add that feature to theRPGsite. What do you think?
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: jrients on February 23, 2007, 09:20:42 AM
Anybody caught spending more time in Off Topic than the main forum should be heckled.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: JongWK on February 23, 2007, 09:46:49 AM
Jeff, do you know if the % feature can be used here?
For the record, DS is a PHP board, like theRPGsite.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: jrients on February 23, 2007, 10:30:44 AM
Quote from: JongWKJeff, do you know if the % feature can be used here?

An initial search of the admin backend turned up nothing helpful in this regard.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: JongWK on February 23, 2007, 12:06:31 PM
Quote from: jrientsAn initial search of the admin backend turned up nothing helpful in this regard.

I asked, and got this answer:

QuoteIt's a standard feature in IPB forum software, I've yet to find another that has it standard.

IPB being Invision, IIRC.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on February 23, 2007, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JongWKwe don't have two separate communities (gaming and OT),

You say that like it's a bad thing for rpg.net. It's actually a good thing. Where there are two radically separate poster communities, issues from one board won't spill over into the other. Whereas this here site is so small that it's bound to happen. I don't want to see people heckle each other about their views on D&D because of their views on gun control.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: James McMurray on February 23, 2007, 01:41:33 PM
Looked at another way, RPG.net has sixty times as much talk about RPGs as the RPGsite.

Comparing sites of such disparate ages and sizes doesn't really work. It's quite possible that when this site hits the age and post count of that site numbers will be similar. After a certain amount of time Off Topic discussion growth spikes because on topic discussion starts to cover the same old bounds and the people who have been around a long time start linking new threads to old.

Also, on general purpose websites off topic discussion can spike over on topic stuff because of general appeal. If there's ten active gaming threads about specific games, not everyone will be interested in all those threads. If there's ten active non-gaming threads about popular subjects (politics, war, racism, etc.) you tend to get a larger cross section of people posting in those topics.

In other words, this place ain't RPG.net, and that's not always a good thing. In terms of moderation it's mostly a good thing. In terms of gaming related post counts it's not a good thing. All IMO and YMMV of course.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Ian Absentia on February 23, 2007, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: James McMurrayAfter a certain amount of time Off Topic discussion growth spikes because on topic discussion starts to cover the same old bounds and the people who have been around a long time start linking new threads to old.
Man, if we could only do that in real life with regard to the whole of human history.  Think how quiet it could get.

Person 1: "You know, I was just thinking..."
Person 2: "Hold on.  Did you check the FAQ?"
Person 1: "No...I was just figuring you and I could, you know, talk about it."
Person 2: "Pretty much everything has already been discussed.  That's why I referred you to the FAQ.  It's fully cross-referenced.  If it's not covered in the FAQ, get back to me."

!i!
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: TonyLB on February 23, 2007, 02:17:44 PM
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaMan, if we could only do that in real life with regard to the whole of human history.  Think how quiet it could get.
You're not the first to say so.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: arminius on February 23, 2007, 02:19:32 PM
You should have referred him to the FAQ, then, Tony.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Mr. Analytical on February 23, 2007, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaMan, if we could only do that in real life with regard to the whole of human history.

  You could in theory refer people to the Library of Congress.

  "Nope sorry... culture is circular, everything has been said, go study and you'll find your answer".
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: TonyLB on February 23, 2007, 03:43:04 PM
Quote from: Elliot WilenYou should have referred him to the FAQ, then, Tony.
See, I was trying for this whole dry, british, subtle humor thing ... but I guess it's just not my strong point. :D
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Consonant Dude on February 23, 2007, 04:41:14 PM
Quote from: SilverlionSeriously guys. This what this forum looks like at the moment--just like Tangency.

I think its time to get rid of any illusions you have about being different (or any smug sense of "blaming tangency" over there for so much bad.) when some are repeating the same behaviors here.

But the behavior that really counts is different. Which is moderation.

Yes, I know both websites have hopeless assholes posting. Every website does. But here, moderation policies aren't shaped by a bunch of sexually dysfunctional, oversensitive clique members who have little to no interest in actual roleplaying.

That's good enough for me. There are other more aesthetical differences between Tangency and this off-topic forum but I won't go into that. Because both forums are totally irrelevant anyway.
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Ian Absentia on February 23, 2007, 05:51:22 PM
Quote from: TonyLBSee, I was trying for this whole dry, british, subtle humor thing ... but I guess it's just not my strong point. :D
Then cue the Benny Hill chase theme*...

!i!

(* "Yakkety-Sax" unless I'm mistaken.)
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Mr. Analytical on February 23, 2007, 06:02:12 PM
Quote from: Ian Absentia(* "Yakkety-Sax" unless I'm mistaken.)

Yup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acm2gsK9AQo) :D
Title: Welcome to Tangency!
Post by: Thanatos02 on February 25, 2007, 01:50:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalYou could in theory refer people to the Library of Congress.

  "Nope sorry... culture is circular, everything has been said, go study and you'll find your answer".
I'm sure you wouldn't be amazed at the people who actually say this, ya? ^_^;