This whole story sounds like a campaign plotline for a GURPS : ILLUMINATI game.

Never liked Tom Cruise much.
 Mostly found him laughable in most of his movies.

DO like Nicole Kidman - glad she divorced him. (So is she, gets nominated for Oscars and all that stufff....)


- Ed C.

I'm keeping an eye on this one.  I really hope it goes somewhere.

People keep posting "whoever loses we win", and I was on board for a while.

While doing dishes and rocking out to "Take On Me" and "Hungry Like The Wolf" it hit me - do we REALLY want Anonymous to win this?  

Not win over Scientology - I can't imagine anyone isn't hoping CoS gets major egg on their face, and gets smacked around.

But Scientology is the biggest thing Anonymous have taken on.  They couldn't have chosen a bigger target short of governments and multinational corporations.

If Anonymous wins, and wins big, do we really want to see what Anonymous takes on next?  Or have these guys thinking they really have an impact on the world?  That they can change the planet?  

Cause part of me shudders to think of the shit they could pull, the following they could get, if they strike a major blow at Scientology.  I doubt they can really dismantle Scientology - but they can do some pretty heavy damage if they get their act together and really make this a major mission.

While I watch the battle with interest, I am hesitant about what the end result may bring - a stronger more invigorated Scientology, or a bolder, brasher and more arrogant Anonymous.

I'm not supportive of their DoS attacks on the Church of Scientology websites.  If you believe in freedom of speech, which is one of their issues with the scientologists having the Cruise video removed from YouTube, then even the CoS deserves that same freedom of speech.

Now, making information videos about the CoS is something else.  Considering the media either won't, or more likely can't* do their job -- it's good to see the message of why the CoS is [potentially] a dangerous organization getting to a wider audience.

* Due to legal threats

Quote from: HackmastergeneralPeople keep posting "whoever loses we win", and I was on board for a while.

While doing dishes and rocking out to "Take On Me" and "Hungry Like The Wolf" it hit me - do we REALLY want Anonymous to win this?  

Not win over Scientology - I can't imagine anyone isn't hoping CoS gets major egg on their face, and gets smacked around.

But Scientology is the biggest thing Anonymous have taken on.  They couldn't have chosen a bigger target short of governments and multinational corporations.

If Anonymous wins, and wins big, do we really want to see what Anonymous takes on next?  Or have these guys thinking they really have an impact on the world?  That they can change the planet?  

Cause part of me shudders to think of the shit they could pull, the following they could get, if they strike a major blow at Scientology.  I doubt they can really dismantle Scientology - but they can do some pretty heavy damage if they get their act together and really make this a major mission.

While I watch the battle with interest, I am hesitant about what the end result may bring - a stronger more invigorated Scientology, or a bolder, brasher and more arrogant Anonymous.

I think the thing you're not realizing is that "anonymous" is not really an organized group.

It's a blanket term that basically refers to anyone taking part in the same goal at this point.

The CoS thing has exploded the way no previous efforts have however, because the target is one a lot more people can get behind, and thus, more people joining the faceless crowd in the square.

It's been deliberately used as imagery by supporters, but the masked march scene at the end of V for Vendetta is really apt to describe the way this thing is playing out.

Also, it's somewhat dependent as well on the internet going public's attention span.  If the collected mass of Digg and 4channers and Youtube addicts and SA Goons and all the other assorted rabble decide tomorrow that it is no longer entertaining, it'll fade off in no time.  This is the Internet after all, where something from last month is already ancient history.

And Stuart, freedom of speech and religion have limits in almost any society where implemented, and those who abuse those freedoms to harm others can be censured or punished for their recklessness.  The coS has abused the government, the legal system, and the freedoms of afforded them to engage in some truly evil acts around the world, and as such, they have chosen to forfiet those rights by way of irresponsible action.

I'm certainly not defending the CoS.

I just think there's little benefit from the DoS attacks (will it stop people form joining, or make people wake up and leave?), and it lets the media turn it into a handy sound bite:  Hackers attack Church of Scientology website.  The uninformed public think "Those bad hackers".  Where a better sound bite is:  Hackers reveal secret Church of Scientology documents about Jesus.  People think "I wonder what they think about Jesus".

Oh, if you're curious... this source  with 4739 Diggs let's you know the secret you normally have to spend a quarter million dollars on and reach Tom Cruise level within the Church.

I'm not going to repost it here, because quite frankly it's pretty offensive.

Yeah... maybe those DoS attacks are a good thing.  :mad:

OMG the CoS is right!

I knew you were a Scientologist!  

The entire part of the OT VIII briefing document is worth a read, actually, because it's hilariously crazy myth - and as the page Stuart linked to points out, it's either a) official Scientology doctrine or b) sufficiently like official Scientology doctrine that Scientology's lawyers can't tell the difference.

Quote from: J ArcaneI think the thing you're not realizing is that "anonymous" is not really an organized group.

It's a blanket term that basically refers to anyone taking part in the same goal at this point.

The CoS thing has exploded the way no previous efforts have however, because the target is one a lot more people can get behind, and thus, more people joining the faceless crowd in the square.

It's been deliberately used as imagery by supporters, but the masked march scene at the end of V for Vendetta is really apt to describe the way this thing is playing out.

Also, it's somewhat dependent as well on the internet going public's attention span.  If the collected mass of Digg and 4channers and Youtube addicts and SA Goons and all the other assorted rabble decide tomorrow that it is no longer entertaining, it'll fade off in no time.  This is the Internet after all, where something from last month is already ancient history.

Oh, I'm well aware that there is no real "anonymous" beyond an loose assortment of internet trolls and legit hackers with a penchant for anarchy and/or fucking with people for their own amusement.  I mean, I have no doubt there are some guys who operate under the "anonymous" moniker who are, indeed, very serious and a probably core group of them who are at the core of most of the more serious Anonymous incidents, but the vast vast majority are just nerds and goons and trolls with free time, computer knowledge and a willingness to skirt the vast majority of societies rules and norms in pursuit of "epic lulz".

But, the thing I think of is, if they really do "win" to some degree, what then?  It HAS been a random assortment of odd actions against legit targets, random people who pissed them off to varying degrees, and truely horrendous harrassment and bad bad shit.  This thing is taking off like nothing thats been attempted before, and is drawing in a vast group that hasn't even lookied that way before.  And it IS somewhat being organized - there are a few sites that are operating as dissemination grounds and news centers/action rallying points.  Its not organized the way Greenpeace is, but there is SOME organization.  They've even got a "guest speaker" coming in to give them tips on fighting Scientology (dude from xenu.tv).
If they manage to accomplish something (again, I doubt the total dismantling of the CoS, but score some amjor victories beyond a few DDOS attacks that have been of varying success so far (I've never had a problem getting to the main Scientology website, and I've been checking at random intervals, in fact...no, still no problem , though Encyclopedia Dramatica seems to be down), but what happens if this thing actually does succeed?

Thats got part of me a wee bit scared - either from the negative backlash, and the resultant shitstorm of government interferance, or in the further empowering of Anonymous as a cognizant and cogent group in a way they've never been before.  It potentially like Frankenstein waking up and starting to move his fingers, and real;izing he is, indeed, powerful.

Put differently, a movement like this can only galvanize in such a way if enough people care and are fed up.  Hence the V comparisons.  

As you note, there's a huge difference between this, and previous Anonymous-labeled efforts, and you need only look at the target to see why.

Any clout they have now is temporary, and liable to disintegrate once the interest level dies off or the next target proves less unifying.

This is hardly the first large scale hacker war in computer history, and all of those have similarly petered off into obscurity after their 15 minutes were up.

Quote from: J ArcaneAlso, it's somewhat dependent as well on the internet going public's attention span.  If the collected mass of Digg and 4channers and Youtube addicts and SA Goons and all the other assorted rabble decide tomorrow that it is no longer entertaining, it'll fade off in no time.  This is the Internet after all, where something from last month is already ancient history.

How offensive can you get J? When someone feels this strongly about something they don't just wander off.  Just because you have no determination doesn't mean others with honor and the fortitude of the righteous will get distracted by any little...hey...is that a crow taking care of a kitten?

Quote from: James J SkachHow offensive can you get J? When someone feels this strongly about something they don't just wander off.  Just because you have no determination doesn't mean others with honor and the fortitude of the righteous will get distracted by any little...hey...is that a crow taking care of a kitten?

I personalyl would very much like to see them succeed, but I am ever the pragmatist, and know all too well how things go with some of the types involved in this particular little war.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralIt potentially like Frankenstein waking up and starting to move his fingers, and real;izing he is, indeed, powerful.

Cue The Pixies:

"With your feet in the air and your head on the ground
Try this trick and spin it, yeah
Your head will collapse
But there's nothing in it
And you'll ask yourself

Where is my mind
Where is my mind
Where is my mind..."

Quote from: Dirk RemmeckeCue The Pixies:

"With your feet in the air and your head on the ground
Try this trick and spin it, yeah
Your head will collapse
But there's nothing in it
And you'll ask yourself

Where is my mind
Where is my mind
Where is my mind..."

I love that song.  Neat, creepy and a little crazy.