Utterly disgusted, filled with odium

Ian Absentia · April 17, 2007, 06:48:10 PM

Interesting statistic, but Singapore as a nation is also, effectively, a single city-state. Narrow down the US statistics to more closely pinpoint the occurrance of the violent gun deaths, and I imagine the population densities would be more comparable. Of course, the US's death rates will increase significantly, too.

I'll readily concede that my population density theory may prove spurious, or at least open to critique.

!i!

droog · April 17, 2007, 06:51:00 PM

Population density of Japan: 339 per sq km
Violent gun deaths: 17.34 per 100 000

James McMurray · April 17, 2007, 06:51:00 PM

A complete ban on guns means only the government and the criminals have them. I don't actually own a gun, and don't plan to* but that's not a place I want to live in.

*at least not until I have no kids in the house, and probably not after that.

Werekoala · April 17, 2007, 06:54:37 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaBut they aren't "perfectly" legal, are they? The fact that a handgun's intended use is, at best, considered justifiable homicide belies that fact.

I use my handguns to make holes in paper, not holes in people - though I also consider them useful for that, should it come to it.

Regardless, yes, they are still "perfectly legal" in the sense that there are no laws against owning them. Same with cigs.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYou know, my wife brought up the topic of the Virginia Tech shootings last night, and my finger-pointing consisted of this: Population Density. Too many fucking people, living too close together. It's driving us nuts, increasing the statistical likelihood of tragedies such as this, and it's only going to get worse. Try to imagine a legislated solution to my assertion. I suggested a 40% to 60% world-wide reduction in the human population -- as long as it doesn't affect me or my immediate family.

I've heard this theory before, and its as good as any.

Werekoala · April 17, 2007, 06:55:51 PM

Quote from: droogPopulation density of the US: 31 per sq km
Violent gun deaths: 18.57 per 100 000 (1993)

Population density of Singapore: 6 208 per sq km
Violent gun deaths: 15.77 per 100 000 (1994)

What amazes me about this isn't that Singapore has fewer gun deaths, but that it has ANY. I thought it was a much more draconian country than that.

droog · April 17, 2007, 07:00:48 PM

Quote from: WerekoalaWhat amazes me about this isn't that Singapore has fewer gun deaths, but that it has ANY. I thought it was a much more draconian country than that.

It's a funny old place. I've always liked this old article by William Gibson:

Disneyland with the Death Penalty

Ian Absentia · April 17, 2007, 07:09:03 PM

Quote from: James McMurrayA complete ban on guns means only the government and the criminals have them. I don't actually own a gun, and don't plan to* but that's not a place I want to live in.

But who's proposing that? I mean, in this thread at least...

Quote from: WerekoalaI've heard this theory [regarding population density] before, and its as good as any.

Actually, droog's statistics seem to be suggesting otherwise. Nations commonly perceived as being more "orderly" than the US, with much higher population densities, appear to have comparable violent gun death rates.

Now, I have to wonder how their accidental gun death rates compare.

!i!

Ian Absentia · April 17, 2007, 07:12:55 PM

Quote from: WerekoalaI use my handguns to make holes in paper, not holes in people - though I also consider them useful for that, should it come to it.

The argument, as ever, really pertains to what a particular gun is intended to do, like military semi-automatic rifles that have been converted to full-automatic fire for "collector" purposes or for "hunting".

QuoteRegardless, yes, they are still "perfectly legal" in the sense that there are no laws against owning them. Same with cigs.

I can see putting holes in paper with cigarettes, but when was the last time you put a hole in a human being with one, either on purpose or on accident?

Sorry, I couldn't resist that last dig.

!i!

Werekoala · April 17, 2007, 07:14:24 PM

Quote from: droogIt's a funny old place. I've always liked this old article by William Gibson:

Disneyland with the Death Penalty

Interesting. And that was 14 years ago.

Still dosn't explain the gun deaths - there must be a seedy underbelly he missed.

Kyle Aaron · April 17, 2007, 07:22:51 PM

Quote from: James McMurrayThere are too many guns bought and sold to psychologically evaluate every prospective customer.

Also, almost no psychologist would be willing to sign away on the thing. Because in the end, people are human, which makes them unpredictable. So some shrink signs away on some bloke's gun licence application, then three years later on some farm in the middle of nowhere, the guy flips out, murders his whole family and then kills himself. Then the daughter who wasn't there that day sues the shrink for four hundred million dollars.

They floated that idea around in Australia about ten years back, the shrinks told them "no thanks."

Quote from: droogObviously the best solution is for everybody to be packing.

"Hey, nutcase!" BOOM

I believe that's the NRA's theory, yes.

Ian Absentia · April 17, 2007, 07:28:32 PM

Quote from: JimBobOzThey floated that idea around in Australia about ten years back, the shrinks told them "no thanks."

I believe that was also the basic response to the proposal here in the US some time back.

!i!

James McMurray · April 17, 2007, 09:03:51 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaBut who's proposing that? I mean, in this thread at least...

It's been mentioned, but nobody has yet to actually stand behind it.

It was a direct response to you saying

QuoteI don't recommend that you hold your breath, but we're not that far away from it. Certainly the popular campaign against them has seriously turned the tide in the last 20 years. I can imagine the same happening to gun ownership.

I wasn't arguing with anyone in the thread, just pointing out the wrongness of an idea.

jdrakeh · April 17, 2007, 09:11:27 PM

Quote from: JimBobOzAnd here was I thinking that the disgust, feeling of odium and hatred would be towards... the murderer.

Silly you. It's obviously a left-wing liberal conspiracy to make the country an easy target for terrorism! :rolleyes:

QuoteIt's a tragedy, and my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

Mine, too. Shame on Nox for trying to spin this for political support/gain.

Koltar · April 17, 2007, 09:14:55 PM

Quote from: jdrakehMine, too. Shame on Nox for trying to spin this for political support/gain.

For that matter - shame on anyone trying to spin this tragedy for political support or gain.

- Ed C.

Thanatos02 · April 17, 2007, 10:17:58 PM

Quote from: droogIt's a funny old place. I've always liked this old article by William Gibson:

Disneyland with the Death Penalty

Thanks for that link, I haven't read it before and found it very interesting indeed. It also confirms a few theories of my own, though they're unrelated to politics. (They're gaming-oriented, actually. And, I think, literature oriented.)