Just watched one of the funniest Top Gears (bbc2 11/02/07) in ages but it did highlight something I've become aware of about the US in the last few years.
America is not - at least in certain areas - subject to the rule of law. Or at least the social mores of modern western civilisation.
The jaunt through Alabama showed what happens when you combine a lack of irony with a mouth breathing populace and the continued squalor in New Orleans
makes a mockery of the drive to spread democracy worldwide.
No wonder the 'Axis of Evil' doesn't listen when America beats its chest, the US can't even clean up its own mess.
Is this just down to eight years of Bushism or is it a deeper seated problem?
Quote from: StumpydaveIs this just down to eight years of Bushism or is it a deeper seated problem?
What, exactly, do you think the problem is and what, exactly, would you do to fix it?
Quote from: John MorrowWhat, exactly, do you think the problem is and what, exactly, would you do to fix it?
Dude, the only winning move here is not to play. (EDIT: By which I mean, just let this thread drop off and die.)
Quote from: fonkaygarryDude, the only winning move here is not to play. (EDIT: By which I mean, just let this thread drop off and die.)
I'm not trying to win. I just like to see the thinking behind comments like this.
I love it when people in borderline 2nd-world burgeoning police states think they understand how things are here in the States.
Next time you walk past a CCTV camera, give it a wave for me, will ya?
Quote from: WerekoalaI love it when people in borderline 2nd-world burgeoning police states think they understand how things are here in the States.
Next time you walk past a CCTV camera, give it a wave for me, will ya?
Now, now.
What stumpy is referring to was a little disturbing, but considering past form was probably at least partially pre-scripted (i'm a sceptic). Three English blokes breezed through Alabama with cars daubed with provocative slogans such as "Hilary Clinton for President", "Man love is great" and "Country music is rubbish". At a garage, some angry locals were a bit threatening and rocks were thrown. New Orleans was shown as pretty much totally untouched by any rebuilding efforts.
I doubt Top Gears honesty in this sort of thing as it's more about having a laugh and being 'lads'. This episode, i thought was a bit snobbish about the US and provocative to boot. Still fucking funny, but still...not the programmes greatest moment IMO.
So they called a lifer's mom a whore and then complained when they got shanked? Is that basically it?
Quote from: One Horse TownNow, now.
What stumpy is referring to was a little disturbing, but considering past form was probably at least partially pre-scripted (i'm a sceptic). Three English blokes breezed through Alabama with cars daubed with provocative slogans such as "Hilary Clinton for President", "Man love is great" and "Country music is rubbish". At a garage, some angry locals were a bit threatening and rocks were thrown. New Orleans was shown as pretty much totally untouched by any rebuilding efforts.
I doubt Top Gears honesty in this sort of thing as it's more about having a laugh and being 'lads'. This episode, i thought was a bit snobbish about the US and provocative to boot. Still fucking funny, but still...not the programmes greatest moment IMO.
Oh. So it was designed to deliberately reflect the U.S. in the worst possible light?
Thank goodness we're allies, eh?
:rolleyes:
Quote from: WerekoalaOh. So it was designed to deliberately reflect the U.S. in the worst possible light?
Thank goodness we're allies, eh?
:rolleyes:
Quote from: WerekoalaI love it when people in borderline 2nd-world burgeoning police states think they understand how things are here in the States.
Next time you walk past a CCTV camera, give it a wave for me, will ya?
With friends like you, who needs enemies?
Quote from: WerekoalaOh. So it was designed to deliberately reflect the U.S. in the worst possible light?
Thank goodness we're allies, eh?
:rolleyes:
Get a grip. It's a motoring programme! :D We all love you really. Just release your cockpit videos a bit quicker ;)
We are brother nations, linked by Simon Cowell from now till Judgment Day!
HUZZAH!
Hey, I don't recall starting this particular discussion of "mouth breathers" and "places where the rule of Law dosn't apply". If you've got a problem with it, take it up with the OP.
WK: The only winning move is not to play. Someone wants to stir shit, why risk getting it on you?
Doesn't matter if you're from Tuscaloosa or Nice; make a value judgment about a nation based on what Clarkson tells you about it and you're one ignorant son of a bitch.
You're right, of course. Why should I care?
On to more pleasant things?
Man douche. Discuss. (http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=02092007)
:what:
Let's see, labling the population of lousiana as "mouth breathers" sounds pretty racist and bigoted to me. I wonder how the same poster would have reacted of someone referred to the population of iraq as "ragheads" or "dunecoons".
Also, if britts wants to come over here and do expose's on america's flaws, maybe we should send a film crew over to merry olde england and dig into some of the things I've heard, like that in some areas police won't even respond to calls about burglaries and thefts because the surge in immigrant populations have triggered a crime wave that the britt justice system simply can't handle, but they always manage to find time on the docket, and a cell in a prison, for anyone who uses force to stop someone robbing his home.
Yes, i've heard people in england protesting those things on some boards, but I don't hear the official english news service saying much about it, I thiunk the law in england forbids it as linking immigrants to crime is considered "racist" even tho it's true.
America has it's faults, england has it's own. At least a person can go to the store in america without being spied on from his doorstep to the store and back again. People in london can't.
*ding, ding!*
"Ruff!" ... drool ...
"Meet my dog, Nox Pavlov."
My sincerest apologies if people took this as a troll post. It's a topic I'm greatly interested in - the disparity between America's projected image and the reality.
Maybe some of my language was provocative, but if you pulled into a garage with something provocative painted on your car in the UK you might get pointed at or some comments made but your not very likely to have the garage owner phone 'the boys' to come over and give you a drubbing.
And I know I'm generalising but it's a big topic and I'm trying to approach it through a tiny medium.
If I get some time later I'll try and answer peoples queries about life in britain.
Quote from: WerekoalaYou're right, of course. Why should I care?
It's just ribbing. I ought to have thrown in some kind of emote or something. Of course, IRL I say everything without any expression, so plain text really isn't much different from my normal inflection anyhow.
Nah, not worth it.
Freedom of speech, mang. Believe what you like.
If you're ever in the neighborhood, come on by for ribs.
Quote from: StumpydaveIf I get some time later I'll try and answer peoples queries about life in britain.
But...doesn't
Little Britain give us an accurate picture already....:D
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RBut...doesn't Little Britain give us an accurate picture already....:D
d00d, you completely ignore the scholarly impact of
The Young Ones.
Here's one thing I know about life in England:
The english allow hordes of muslims to take to the streets and call for the death of america and israel.
Meanwhile, within a few weeks of one of these "rallies" an english woman was arrested and carried off to jail for standing across from 10 downing street and just reading aloud a list of names of british soldiers who'd been killed in iraq.
Of course I guess it was easy to subdue and cart off one woman, now trying to stop thousands of members of the religion of peace from holding a hatefest calling for death to america and israel, well, some of them might have fought back, and I guess the english police and/or government were afraid a real fight might break out, and they didn't have the spine for it.
Go ahead, say it didn't happen, deny it, insult me. I quit caring what most of the human race thougth about me when I realized most of them aren't worth caring about.
Brits, in the name of god, Brits.
Not britts. We are not a nation of Britt Ekland's, and even if we were we would still be capitalised.
Britain does have serious issues with freedom of assembly and protest currently, paring away Nox's racist ramblings he is correct on that particular point.
As for lawless mouth breathing parts of the US, I can only assume the OP hasn't been to Luton. It ain't unique to the yanks I'm afraid.
Quote from: StumpydaveJust watched one of the funniest Top Gears (bbc2 11/02/07) in ages but it did highlight something I've become aware of about the US in the last few years.
America is not - at least in certain areas - subject to the rule of law. Or at least the social mores of modern western civilisation.
The jaunt through Alabama showed what happens when you combine a lack of irony with a mouth breathing populace and the continued squalor in New Orleans
makes a mockery of the drive to spread democracy worldwide.
No wonder the 'Axis of Evil' doesn't listen when America beats its chest, the US can't even clean up its own mess.
Is this just down to eight years of Bushism or is it a deeper seated problem?
More seriously, I think this is a broader problem than the US. There are estates in Glasgow where kids attack each other of an evening for something to do, it is a wider problem which I think is related to broader societal issues in the West today. I can post more on it later, but I don't think it's particularly US specific, if anything it's just that it's funnier when it's them for our TV as we can understand what they're saying but they have funny accents. With Glaswegians of course many can't understand what they're saying, and in any event it ceases to be funny when it's our own people.
Quote from: Dominus NoxMeanwhile, within a few weeks of one of these "rallies" an english woman was arrested and carried off to jail for standing across from 10 downing street and just reading aloud a list of names of british soldiers who'd been killed in iraq.
I don't want to confuse you with facts, but she was actually cautioned and released on police bail. She's refused to accept the caution so will probably be prosecuted and given a conditional discharge. The protest exclusion zone in central London is rather silly, but less so than the caged "Free Speech Zones" in the US
Quote from: Dominus NoxOf course I guess it was easy to subdue and cart off one woman, now trying to stop thousands of members of the religion of peace from holding a hatefest calling for death to america and israel, well, some of them might have fought back, and I guess the english police and/or government were afraid a real fight might break out, and they didn't have the spine for it.
Traditionally the police have two duties: to enforce the law and keep the peace. Balancing the two is often difficult. In the case of those rallies you are talking about the police made the operational decision to film the crowd and nail the offenders later rather than potentially causing a riot where people could be seriously injured or killed. There have been several prosecutions and deportations arising out of that operation
Quote from: BalbinusBritain does have serious issues with freedom of assembly and protest currently, paring away Nox's racist ramblings he is correct on that particular point.
I think every country has serious issues with this particular
right. I suppose the British involvement with the
situation in the Middle East and the perception (whatever it may be) amongst Muslims may be one of the reasons why Muslims are allowed to vent on the streets. A
release mechanism, perhaps?
Add to that the fact that reading out the names of dead servicemen is probably going to stir up more anti war rhetoric and in the US bodies of dead servicemen are not allowed to be shown....all this creates, well, let's just say, freedom of speech has seen better times. But, yet I think - know - that the West is in a far better position to recover whatever it thinks it has lost, than most other countries in the world.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RI think every country has serious issues with this particular right. I suppose the British involvement with the situation in the Middle East and the perception (whatever it may be) amongst Muslims may be one of the reasons why Muslims are allowed to vent on the streets. A release mechanism, perhaps?
Add to that the fact that reading out the names of dead servicemen is probably going to stir up more anti war rhetoric and in the US bodies of dead servicemen are not allowed to be shown....all this creates, well, let's just say, freedom of speech has seen better times. But, yet I think - know - that the West is in a far better position to recover whatever it thinks it has lost, than most other countries in the world.
Regards,
David R
I wasn't talking about the Muslim protests, but the very specific law which forbids the making of any protest within a set distance from Parliament.
There are some very serious issues with civil rights in Britain today, certainly we do not have:
Freedom of assembly
Freedom of protest
Freedom of movement
Presumption of innocence
A right to no detention without trial
A right to face one's accusers (and I'm not talking here about exceptions for rape, which are understandable, many crimes now don't permit this)
And I could easily go on. The situation in Britain in terms of legal rights is far more serious than most people realise.
We also now routinely imprison for non-imprisonable offences, asbos have on their own demolished a huge number of civil liberties.
We exist on the grace of our rulers increasingly, and should we have the misfortune to come to their attention we can be banged up indefinitely without trial perfectly legally, which was not the case even a few short years ago.
Not to mention plans to have trackers in new cars to allow them to be tracked in order to pay a 'mileage tax'. Which just means that that when you aren't being looked at by CCTV's, your position can be found in a minute. Add to that the plans for the identity card as well.
Its been years Balbinus since I had a real good look at British jurisprudence although I'm very well aware albeit superficially of the current legal climate. I misread your post, my mistake.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: One Horse TownNot to mention plans to have trackers in new cars to allow them to be tracked in order to pay a 'mileage tax'. Which just means that that when you aren't being looked at by CCTV's, your position can be found in a minute. Add to that the plans for the identity card as well.
Yup, the government plans to implement a compulsory monitoring system under which it would track in real time all journeys by car.
Happily I think that one will fail, but an incredibly illiberal measure.
My favourite one is that if we're arrested the police can take a sample of our DNA and keep it on record even if we're not charged let alone convicted of a crime. OTOH I don't see myself visiting the US in the forseeable furure because I'm not keen on going through customs checks which include giving my fingerprints. Lots and lots of problems in the UK likesay just as there are lots of problems in the US.
Quote from: Garry GMy favourite one is that if we're arrested the police can take a sample of our DNA and keep it on record even if we're not charged let alone convicted of a crime.
Been there, done that, had the case dropped on lack of evidence when I refused to admit guilt (lie) and take a bound over to keep the peace order.
Back on topic - yeah Top Gear was funny, but I don't doubt that the gas station incident was scripted quite a lot.
Clarkson is a hugely un-PC fellow prone to humorous hyperbole and outrageous mickey-taking of everything and everyone to the point where you stop taking him seriously after a while. Just because he tends to reveiw the satnav on new BMWs and Mercedes by asking for directions to Poland doesn't mean he hates the Germans :D
He'd get banned in a heartbeat on RPGNet (but then again, so would a typical script from
The Simpsons), which is why I like the guy :D