Quote from: Omega on September 27, 2022, 07:45:54 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 19, 2022, 10:15:12 AM

Quote from: Wntrlnd on September 19, 2022, 09:37:22 AM

Quote from: Rhymer88 on September 06, 2022, 04:05:04 AM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.

Except she isnt. More foolhardy than brave and not smart enough to recognize Sauron when he is standing right in front of her. (on the other hand, nor does anyone else either)

And Elrond and Durin are totally bros. They just had a misunderstanding to deal with first.

That was kind of the whole point of Sauron's guise as Annatar, after all. Wouldn't be much good if he got recognized immediately.

Very. For all his myriad failures and goof-ups his little disguise trick was masterfully played. And if someone hadn't finally noticed he'd have pulled it all off. But that is Sauron's story afterall. A long long chain of charm, plotting, deception all ending in spectacular failures.

Yeaaaah, they only noticed after he forged the One Ring. Not exactly a failure there, as it let him wreck Eregion and kill Celebrimbor.

Quote from: Tallifer on September 27, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
They say the new prime minister of Italy is a huge fanatic of Tolkien. I wonder what she thinks of Amazon's blasphemous series?

She (Giorgia Meloni) never connected her passion for Tolkien with her career in politics - so everyone else did. "We cannot tolerate that someone from the fan-right can be a Tolkien fan because Tolkien is for everybody!" is the primary symptom of a brain aneurysm happening between the first sentence and the second.

The Guardian published a fun hit-piece against her - fun because if you change "Meloni" with "Galadriel" you have the perfect description of the character they are glorifying elsewhere.

To answer the original question, a smart politician, right now, would diss the show. Or, better yet, keep quiet.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 28, 2022, 08:40:56 AM

Quote from: Omega on September 27, 2022, 07:45:54 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 19, 2022, 10:15:12 AM

Quote from: Wntrlnd on September 19, 2022, 09:37:22 AM

Quote from: Rhymer88 on September 06, 2022, 04:05:04 AM
Now even Elon Musk has weighed in on it. His comment: Almost every male character so far is a coward, a jerk or both. Only Galadriel is brave, smart and nice.

Except she isnt. More foolhardy than brave and not smart enough to recognize Sauron when he is standing right in front of her. (on the other hand, nor does anyone else either)

And Elrond and Durin are totally bros. They just had a misunderstanding to deal with first.

That was kind of the whole point of Sauron's guise as Annatar, after all. Wouldn't be much good if he got recognized immediately.

Very. For all his myriad failures and goof-ups his little disguise trick was masterfully played. And if someone hadn't finally noticed he'd have pulled it all off. But that is Sauron's story afterall. A long long chain of charm, plotting, deception all ending in spectacular failures.

Yeaaaah, they only noticed after he forged the One Ring. Not exactly a failure there, as it let him wreck Eregion and kill Celebrimbor.

Except at least one of the elves caught on well before that and started taking measures.

Quote from: Tallifer on September 27, 2022, 11:28:14 AM
They say the new prime minister of Italy is a huge fanatic of Tolkien. ....

Really? I like her even more now.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 27, 2022, 10:50:41 AM
Far Harad is an entire continent of black folks who were historically victimized by the evil Numenoreans.

Well the issue is that they are not 'relevent' enough. And also wokeness wildly careens between victimization, but also extreme empowerment and purity.
The X favored group becoming or being just as bad as the Y favored group goes against the message of 'Some people are just inherently good and others are inherently evil'.
Its Oxymoron, but so is the ideology:

'Africans ways of living are pure and good, way better then icky modern western life....But they would have totally made high tech utopias if it wasn't for the white man!....Which they would have totally overcome if they where not so pure and not used to warfare....But they are totally amazing at everything too!'

Wokeness is a bitter teen upset that her great grandfather has many medals from the war and a picture in his honor hanging at her parents house because he died in a tank battle in WWII. She assumes that the reason she isn't getting as much glory is exclusively sexism (and her great grandpa must have been a terrible person anyway), and she would have achieved way more medals if just women where drafted.

Wokeness is upset that its mostly written by western white people PERIOD. Its an attempt to re-write it in their view of how history should have always been.

I do think it's interesting that the show brings more attention to the fact that orcs are ultimately Morgoth's victims and have their own culture. Tolkien struggled with the origin and morality of orcs up to his death. I see a lot of online discourse claiming that the orcs should be hated and irredeemable, which I don't agree with.

Also, I noticed that even many of the show's defenders in both news publications and youtube channels are now giving up and criticizing the show's bad writing. There are still some holdouts claiming that the critics are just "superfans" (as if there's anything wrong with that) and "racists" (which is patently untrue aside from at most a handful of crazies on Stormfront).

If you file off the serial numbers and treat the show as an original work, then it's terribly written. Which shouldn't be surprising as the showrunners have little experience.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 30, 2022, 10:46:38 AM
Also, I noticed that even many of the show's defenders in both news publications and youtube channels are now giving up and criticizing the show's bad writing. There are still some holdouts claiming that the critics are just "superfans" (as if there's anything wrong with that) and "racists" (which is patently untrue aside from at most a handful of crazies on Stormfront).

If you file off the serial numbers and treat the show as an original work, then it's terribly written. Which shouldn't be surprising as the showrunners have little experience.

Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 30, 2022, 12:31:10 PM

Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

They sure did; and one of the "superfans" who was interviewed recently still hasn't seen a single episode.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 30, 2022, 12:31:10 PM
Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

Yup. They hit six countries with these "superfans" videos (USA, France, Italy, Germany, Netherlands and Spain). These were manufactured videos, made with influencers and paid actors - many of whom never even talked about Tolkien in their social accounts. The US one was pulled down after a few days buy of course it has been re-uploaded everywhere else so one can easily find it.

The baffling thing is how the first doubt everyone had, which was the insertion of random black elves and dwarves, turned out to be among the few good things of the show. Arondir is the only real elf in the series while Disa the dwarf is a fun comic relief. I tend to agree with those who say that Amazon trotted out the black characters first so to cause a stir about them (strictly about how they didn't respect the books' lore) and manufacture the "racist!" narrative they are still stuck with - including against critics from Nigeria, Kenya, India, Iraq, Japan, Vietnam...

Quote
This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

I had first hand leaks about the show and they were already bad. "Galadriel will be bullied (?) by other elf-kids in Valinor () within the first two minutes." (Something I didn't really believe to be totally correct, because... How can she be bullied within the first two minutes? After all they have to first present the elves, Valinor, who Galadriel is... Let's say that they managed to pull this stunt). Then the show started and... not only it is not Tolkien, it is not even itself, if you get my meaning. It is internally inconsistent, messed up, boring... astoundingly bad in writing, acting, production design...

And then you have the true paradox: they are so obsessed with "grrrl power" that every important decision is made by a female character (all of them alone, with no male companion). The writing, however, is so atrocious, that these decisions are always flatly stupid. Thus, the message of this show becomes "For the love of God, never put a woman in command."

And then in Episode Six, among MANY, MANY hideous moments, there was an apparently small thing that IMHO, demonstrates why this show is an offense against God.

So, the "Southlands" (not yet Mordor) are menaced by an orc army but Numenor is arriving (from Numenor to the hearth of Mordor in 36 hours BTW). Arondir, the black elf and the only real warrior in the area, does everything he can to rally some desperate villagers: he trains them, makes plans, rallies them with arousing speeches... he does everything in his power to delay the orcs. For "reasons" the leader of these villagers is Bronwyn, a female healer, and Arondir's True Love (I know: this is not the problem; the scene when they finally kiss is even beautiful). Anyway, during the battle Bronwyn does everything Arondir tells her to do (which is not: "You are a healer: think about the wounded; again, believe me, this is not the problem).

Many (inane) things happen and then our heroes are saved by the Numenorean army thanks to the time bought by Arondir. The battle is surveyed from atop a hill by Regent-Queen Tar-Miriel, whose skin was "fairest than ivory and pearls", played here by a black woman.

So, they win, and Tar-Miriel and Bronwyn meet, and Arondir is sent away because the two grrrls have to talk.

Even in a show as bad as this one, nothing had yet reached this abyss. The meaning of that scene is, literally, "Thanks for your service, elf nigger, now return among your ranks". And he does! Tar-Miriel (who did nothing for the whole battle) and Bronwyn (who followed Arondir's advice because every time she opened her mouth half of her people defected to the orcs - I'm not joking, it is in the show) start to complement each other for the greatness of their leadership. I swear to God that they come this close to fingering each other in orgasmic abandon. I mean... the writers even made clear that Arondir and Bronwyn love each other. By this point in the story Arondir is beloved by the villagers too. Bronwyn should at the very least say "No, Arondir stays, because it is also thanks to him if we resisted" (the correct admission should be "Arondir stays, because it is thanks to him and no one else if we resisted"). They had everything in place to show parity and valor in elves and humans, in whites and blacks. No.

I was astounded. It was a scene as racist as fuck. It should be denounced by every wokeist out there and I would be in front of them waving my sign. They created a black elf just to show how he belongs to the inferior ranks, full stop - any good that he does being stolen by "superior beings". And he complies! He doesn't say "Bronwyn, what the fuck?!" He just bows and disappears.

Now those left watching the show will know that, by now, we are deep South in more than a way. I always maintained that they don't even realise the real meaning of what they are putting on screen. But it is telling that the head of Amazon Studios, Jennifer Salke, the main producer, Lindsay Weber, and the two showrunners are all white people with blond hair. This is the team tasked to bring "diversity, inclusivity, representation" to the show. One cannot make such a thing up.

Quote from: Trond on October 02, 2022, 01:08:05 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 30, 2022, 12:31:10 PM

Wait, didn't Amazon have a series of videos with so-called 'superfans' shilling for this dumpster fire?

This is what a billion dollars buys: an elaborate, expensive vanity project with all the writing quality of a teenager's stupid, edgy fanfic that he or she will cringe at if they run across it again later in life. It's My Immortal with an unlimited (well, close to it) budget.

They sure did; and one of the "superfans" who was interviewed recently still hasn't seen a single episode.

Keep in mind that the SJWs will blow huge amounts of money to use something as an agenda platform. Ot matters not one bit that the seies is trash and will likely lose money. Just long as they can poison a few more minds and spread their mental disease a little further. And it doesnt even have to be the show itself. All they have to do is make it look like a product has some agenda insertion and then play victim and rake in a few more supporters.

Remember. WOTC pulls this alot. Others have been too.

In agreement with Reckall, I have noticed in real life how obese white cows monopolize any political or corporate meeting or anything while pretending solidarity with brownies and blackies. These days it has gotten worse because the white cows are actually men who pretend to be women so they can screw adolescent girls while pretending to be lesbians.

Reckall, I had a sudden brainwave. Or fart, take it as you will. But do you know what your description of the scene with Arondir and Bronwyn reminds me of?

The way Finn (John Boyega) got kicked to the curb in the Star Wars sequels.

Seriously. I am getting the same vibe. For all their talk about 'muh diversity' or 'muh representation', what these worthless fucks want is tokens. Stand right there, little colored boy, so we can look good for the cameras, but don't talk.

But we're the fucking racists?

The show is a waste of time. Even if it were stripped of its Tolkien branding it's poor. Bad writing, bad casting, bad acting, et cetera.

And it's clear that the Tolkien branding is purely an attempt to grab some interest because Tolkien and Middle Earth are popular. There's no attempt to actually follow what Tolkien wrote, either in particulars or in tone, et cetera.

I've written it off and won't be watching, going forward. I'd rather go read some actual Tolkien Second Age stories than waste my time on Amazon's weird and misguided fanfic.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on October 02, 2022, 11:51:29 PM
The show is a waste of time. Even if it were stripped of its Tolkien branding it's poor. Bad writing, bad casting, bad acting, et cetera.

And it's clear that the Tolkien branding is purely an attempt to grab some interest because Tolkien and Middle Earth are popular. There's no attempt to actually follow what Tolkien wrote, either in particulars or in tone, et cetera.

I've written it off and won't be watching, going forward. I'd rather go read some actual Tolkien Second Age stories than waste my time on Amazon's weird and misguided fanfic.

Hell, The Last Ringbearer was better than this tripe.