The Movie Thread Reloaded

Stephen Tannhauser · September 03, 2024, 01:01:46 PM

Binge-watched KAOS on the weekend with my wife. Woke AF in exactly the ways that, in hindsight, one should expect of series creator and writer Charlie Covell (who also did the series The End of the F***ing World), but, to be as brutally fair as possible, reasonably entertaining for those who aren't as prickly about religion-bashing in their stories as I am. If you enjoy watching Jeff Goldblum do his usual fumfering while actually presenting a reasonably scary take on Zeus, King of the Gods, you'll enjoy this at least somewhat.

Basic situation: It's an alternate modern day world where the Greek Gods are real and known to be real, and worshipped everywhere -- there are some nice little touches of worldbuilding based on this, like Mount Olympus looking like an uber-mansion from Lifestyles of The Rich and Shameless, Dionysus being a rave-club party boy, an order of tongueless priestesses called the Tacitae who hear confessions (which unfortunately go straight to Hera's ears, which she does not treat as sacred), and the conquered Trojans living as a ghettoized minority in Krete (with a circle of terroristic rebels constantly committing anti-Olympian vandalism). Zeus has recently started getting more and more paranoid about no longer being loved or worshipped properly, and about a prophecy foretelling the fall of the Divine Family and the return of Kaos. Three mortals may likewise be involved in this coming fall: Eurydice, the unhappily-domestic wife of the rock star Orpheus; Caeneus, an ex-Amazon who had to leave her people upon coming out as a trans man (which unlike the myth is done in the Present-Day-Seattle definition of the term, rather than the original tale of Caenis the Amazon being magically transformed by Poseidon at her request into Caeneus the Warrior so she'd never be raped again); and Ariadne, daughter of President Minos of Krete, who is a critical part of her own father's prophesied fate and of the future of Olympian worship. And behind the scenes, Prometheus the imprisoned Titan (played by Stephen Dillane, in an entertaining change-up from his role as Stannis Baratheon) is conspiring with the Fates to help upset the order of the universe in a bid to regain his own freedom....

Criticisms in the spoiler block so those who think they might still enjoy it can do so.

Spoiler

- First problem: The basic world is extremely implausible to anybody who knows anything about the history of scientific thought and technological development, because those things grew ineluctably out of the Judeo-Christian worldview that the universe was rational, consistent and ordered, a worldview that nothing in Greek mythology suggests to be the case.

- Second problem: The entire story, as noted above, is an extremely heavy-handed bash at the ideas of religion and religious thought, epitomized by the great and horrible secret of the gods: the afterlife of Renewal, which mortal souls are promised in Hades as a reincarnation to a better next life -- it's this passage through a doorway called the Frame which the funeral coin is used to pay for, rather than crossing the Styx -- is a lie; going through the Frame only puts souls into a void called the Nothing where they serve as unconscious fuel for the gods' immortality and power, conveyed through the medium of the waters from a divine fountain on Olympus called the Meander. Anyone who sincerely reveres the gods and tries to do their will is presented as a dupe at best and a monster at worst.

- Third problem: As the story of Caeneus might have hinted above, the series goes above and beyond the kind of LGBT representation that even the original myths could have entertainingly facilitated; not only are such characters introduced in places and in ways even the myths didn't go (Prometheus and Charon were lovers in this story, as were Theseus and Astyanax the lost prince of Troy, and the three Fates are all portrayed by trans or "non-binary" actors like Eddie Izzard), but the vast majority of heterosexual couples are deliberately subverted to destroy them as counterpoints -- Eurydice ("Riddy") is shown as miserable in her marriage to Orpheus and planning to leave him anyway (and for no good reason except feeling stifled and bored), while Orpheus's love for and adoration of his wife, a love for which he went to Hell itself, is ultimately portrayed as somehow a bad thing; Hera is cheating on Zeus with Poseidon; Minos and Pasiphae, Ariadne's parents, are political performers with no love lost between them; and the nameless mortal couple who want to get their deceased son back from the underworld, unintentionally jeopardizing Orpheus's efforts to rescue Eurydice, are stuck in grief and misery that is never annealed. Only Hades and Persephone have anything like a happy marriage, and if they are not as needlessly cruel as the other gods, they are still willing participants in the theft of mortal souls for their own benefit.

It's well acted, cleverly written and quite funny in a few parts, but on the whole, anybody who takes their religion at all seriously and doesn't feel like seeing it bashed for eight straight hours would be better advised to watch something else.

GeekyBugle · September 03, 2024, 02:01:59 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on September 03, 2024, 01:01:46 PMBinge-watched KAOS on the weekend with my wife. Woke AF in exactly the ways that, in hindsight, one should expect of series creator and writer Charlie Covell (who also did the series The End of the F***ing World), but, to be as brutally fair as possible, reasonably entertaining for those who aren't as prickly about religion-bashing in their stories as I am. If you enjoy watching Jeff Goldblum do his usual fumfering while actually presenting a reasonably scary take on Zeus, King of the Gods, you'll enjoy this at least somewhat.

Basic situation: It's an alternate modern day world where the Greek Gods are real and known to be real, and worshipped everywhere -- there are some nice little touches of worldbuilding based on this, like Mount Olympus looking like an uber-mansion from Lifestyles of The Rich and Shameless, Dionysus being a rave-club party boy, an order of tongueless priestesses called the Tacitae who hear confessions (which unfortunately go straight to Hera's ears, which she does not treat as sacred), and the conquered Trojans living as a ghettoized minority in Krete (with a circle of terroristic rebels constantly committing anti-Olympian vandalism). Zeus has recently started getting more and more paranoid about no longer being loved or worshipped properly, and about a prophecy foretelling the fall of the Divine Family and the return of Kaos. Three mortals may likewise be involved in this coming fall: Eurydice, the unhappily-domestic wife of the rock star Orpheus; Caeneus, an ex-Amazon who had to leave her people upon coming out as a trans man (which unlike the myth is done in the Present-Day-Seattle definition of the term, rather than the original tale of Caenis the Amazon being magically transformed by Poseidon at her request into Caeneus the Warrior so she'd never be raped again); and Ariadne, daughter of President Minos of Krete, who is a critical part of her own father's prophesied fate and of the future of Olympian worship. And behind the scenes, Prometheus the imprisoned Titan (played by Stephen Dillane, in an entertaining change-up from his role as Stannis Baratheon) is conspiring with the Fates to help upset the order of the universe in a bid to regain his own freedom....

Criticisms in the spoiler block so those who think they might still enjoy it can do so.

Spoiler
- First problem: The basic world is extremely implausible to anybody who knows anything about the history of scientific thought and technological development, because those things grew ineluctably out of the Judeo-Christian worldview that the universe was rational, consistent and ordered, a worldview that nothing in Greek mythology suggests to be the case.

- Second problem: The entire story, as noted above, is an extremely heavy-handed bash at the ideas of religion and religious thought, epitomized by the great and horrible secret of the gods: the afterlife of Renewal, which mortal souls are promised in Hades as a reincarnation to a better next life -- it's this passage through a doorway called the Frame which the funeral coin is used to pay for, rather than crossing the Styx -- is a lie; going through the Frame only puts souls into a void called the Nothing where they serve as unconscious fuel for the gods' immortality and power, conveyed through the medium of the waters from a divine fountain on Olympus called the Meander. Anyone who sincerely reveres the gods and tries to do their will is presented as a dupe at best and a monster at worst.

- Third problem: As the story of Caeneus might have hinted above, the series goes above and beyond the kind of LGBT representation that even the original myths could have entertainingly facilitated; not only are such characters introduced in places and in ways even the myths didn't go (Prometheus and Charon were lovers in this story, as were Theseus and Astyanax the lost prince of Troy, and the three Fates are all portrayed by trans or "non-binary" actors like Eddie Izzard), but the vast majority of heterosexual couples are deliberately subverted to destroy them as counterpoints -- Eurydice ("Riddy") is shown as miserable in her marriage to Orpheus and planning to leave him anyway (and for no good reason except feeling stifled and bored), while Orpheus's love for and adoration of his wife, a love for which he went to Hell itself, is ultimately portrayed as somehow a bad thing; Hera is cheating on Zeus with Poseidon; Minos and Pasiphae, Ariadne's parents, are political performers with no love lost between them; and the nameless mortal couple who want to get their deceased son back from the underworld, unintentionally jeopardizing Orpheus's efforts to rescue Eurydice, are stuck in grief and misery that is never annealed. Only Hades and Persephone have anything like a happy marriage, and if they are not as needlessly cruel as the other gods, they are still willing participants in the theft of mortal souls for their own benefit.

It's well acted, cleverly written and quite funny in a few parts, but on the whole, anybody who takes their religion at all seriously and doesn't feel like seeing it bashed for eight straight hours would be better advised to watch something else.

Thanks for biting that bullet, saved me some precious time.

Ratman_tf · September 03, 2024, 08:43:07 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on September 03, 2024, 01:01:46 PMIt's well acted, cleverly written and quite funny in a few parts, but on the whole, anybody who takes their religion at all seriously and doesn't feel like seeing it bashed for eight straight hours would be better advised to watch something else.

Unh. I'm down for poking at any belief system, but as a recovered materialist atheist, I'd really like to see the deconstruction of religion move past the level of Youtube Edgelord.

Stephen Tannhauser · September 04, 2024, 08:18:41 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 03, 2024, 08:43:07 PMUnh. I'm down for poking at any belief system, but as a recovered materialist atheist, I'd really like to see the deconstruction of religion move past the level of Youtube Edgelord.

I think part of the difficulty is that most people who write anti-religion satires are primarily motivated by personal grudges against the target, which means the advocacy has a tendency to get in the way of the art. (Ironically, the same problem bedevils, no pun intended, many "faith-based" works in the opposite direction.)

Omega · September 05, 2024, 12:53:52 AM

Pulled out my old copy of King Kong Escapes and noticed something had not before. It is collaboration with none other than Rankin/Bass. Apparently it ties into their King Kong cartoon which I'd never heard of.

Its a fun giant monster movie and whomever they have in the suits sure could move fluidly when running. Does not look like the Japanese version ever got a subtitled release. But the english version is not bad really.

This and that odd one with the fish men were two of the more obscure Toho movies that stuck with me.

Banjo Destructo · September 05, 2024, 09:37:44 AM

Didn't see it around 10 years ago when it came out, but I saw "the man from UNCLE" for the first time, the 2014? movie. It was a pretty solid movie, entertaining, not annoying, etc.

Omega · September 06, 2024, 06:01:20 PM

The Man from UNCLE remake was surprisingly not bad for these things.

Chris24601 · September 08, 2024, 11:37:24 PM

Quote from: Omega on September 06, 2024, 06:01:20 PMThe Man from UNCLE remake was surprisingly not bad for these things.

That's because it was released in 2015.

While it had been trending down, Hollywood still gave a damn about wrapping their message in a reasonable story to slowly nudge the public leftward right up until November 6, 2016. Anything not finished with production by that date became message-first with good storytelling optional as the "inevitable arc of history" was broken and TDS overcame Hollywood like it was the latest STD.

The nudging was over and Hollyweird went Full Retard trying to shove the message down everyone's throats... burning down property after property in a fit of pique.

Bedrockbrendan · September 17, 2024, 08:02:36 AM

Went back and watched Wolf (1994). I remembered hating it when it came out, because it didn't feel like a real werewolf movie. But this time around I enjoyed it a lot more. I always liked the soundtrack to it, but the movie itself felt too light as werewolf movies go when I saw it in theaters. And I felt like we got robbed of a good Jack Nicholson werewolf film (which at the time just seemed like a perfect fit for him). But I found myself a lot less hostile to the premise and didn't mind the subtle transition into a werewolf over the course of the film.

ForgottenF · September 17, 2024, 08:04:24 PM

I finally sat down and watched Deathstalker II, and it was....fucking amazing. Probably the funniest piece of B movie schlock I've seen since Humanoids From the Deep.

Bedrockbrendan · September 17, 2024, 10:26:43 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on September 17, 2024, 08:04:24 PMI finally sat down and watched Deathstalker II, and it was....fucking amazing. Probably the funniest piece of B movie schlock I've seen since Humanoids From the Deep.

I remember doing a marathon of those movies on VHS in high school. I believe at a certain point they start re-using footage from previous movies to pad out the scenes

yosemitemike · September 18, 2024, 02:56:55 AM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on September 17, 2024, 10:26:43 PMI remember doing a marathon of those movies on VHS in high school. I believe at a certain point they start re-using footage from previous movies to pad out the scenes

They started with the second one.

Wrath of God · September 19, 2024, 04:07:08 AM

Spoiler for KAOS

-

QuoteFirst problem: The basic world is extremely implausible to anybody who knows anything about the history of scientific thought and technological development, because those things grew ineluctably out of the Judeo-Christian worldview that the universe was rational, consistent and ordered, a worldview that nothing in Greek mythology suggests to be the case.

I'd defintiely disagree with it. Sure medieval Christianity very much embraced such perspective, but it did not came from Israel or early Christianity. It came very much from Greeks and Greek philosophy. Rationalism and empiricism came both from Greek, and attempts to rationally explain own religion came to Jews via Hellenism. OF course this rational drive of Greek philosophy stood in jarring contrast to wild shenanigans of their mythology which is maybe they were so fast to embrace Christianity, gnosticism or even various magical traditions that offered more consistent cosmology.

So if you take Greek myths vs Greek philosophical ideas, you can kinda imagine putting them in conflict as very opposed things. After all Socrates was executed among other things for atheism (not denying The God, but denying Greek religion).

Quote- Second problem: The entire story, as noted above, is an extremely heavy-handed bash at the ideas of religion and religious thought, epitomized by the great and horrible secret of the gods: the afterlife of Renewal, which mortal souls are promised in Hades as a reincarnation to a better next life -- it's this passage through a doorway called the Frame which the funeral coin is used to pay for, rather than crossing the Styx -- is a lie; going through the Frame only puts souls into a void called the Nothing where they serve as unconscious fuel for the gods' immortality and power, conveyed through the medium of the waters from a divine fountain on Olympus called the Meander. Anyone who sincerely reveres the gods and tries to do their will is presented as a dupe at best and a monster at worst.

I mean idea for fantasy that gods parasites on human faith and so on is nothing new in fantasy TBH.
I mean look at Forgotten Realms - neither deity there is actually the God, they are merely quarreling spirits, and yet they will put you into Wall if you lack patron.

But honestly with your description I wonder different thing about it.
Have you thought the satire here is less pointed into Church but more into modern billionaires and their sometimes cult following. Something about it sounds more like gods are those filthy rich people, who exploit working massess of world for own gain, while common men are lied they can rich Elysian state...?

QuoteThe Man from UNCLE remake was surprisingly not bad for these things.

I mean it's Guy Ritchie. He may do better and worse things but generally he seems to doing first and foremost own film. Sure that may mean Chinese kung-fu Arthurian knights, but I doubt it was for wokeness sake.