The Movie Thread Reloaded

[Ghostmaker]

There are, however, two good arguments in favor of capital punishment:

One, you won't have to feed, house, or deal with that person again.

Two, their chance of recidivism is zero.

That being said, the huge issues we have been seeing with our judicial system make me disinclined to support the death penalty. Too many errors, too many dirty prosecutions, too much crap. So yeah, sorry, I can't support it.

Self-defense is a thing, however, and if you die because you kicked in the wrong door, well... think of it as evolution in action.

[BoxCrayonTales]

The problem is human nature.

Reject humanity, embrace the bugs.

[Omega]

There are, however, two good arguments in favor of capital punishment:

One, you won't have to feed, house, or deal with that person again.

Two, their chance of recidivism is zero.

That being said, the huge issues we have been seeing with our judicial system make me disinclined to support the death penalty. Too many errors, too many dirty prosecutions, too much crap. So yeah, sorry, I can't support it.

Self-defense is a thing, however, and if you die because you kicked in the wrong door, well... think of it as evolution in action.

Wayyy off topic. But that is my view too. Especially after seeing just how badly the judicial system is now.
Cull out the corrupt in the system and then the death sentence works because then theres little to no chance a killer can cheat their way free.

Back on topic thats been the subject of a few movies and TV, especially CSI, and even the second of the PC RPGs Freedom Force where one of the superheroes, Tombstone, is falsely tried for the murder of his wife and sentenced to death.

[Ratman_tf]

  I can buy that capital punishment as carried out in the USA is usually unfair, can not be undone, and does not deter the crimes it is there for.  It is also hideously expensive.   That said, if I caught a person who killed, or say, sexually assaulted my wife or kids, I would have no issue torturing them to death for a few days.

There's a big difference between the legal process and personal reaction. If someone harmed my immediate family, I'd likely have a similar reaction. But I'm also glad that we have a legal system to prevent everyone from going there when a person is victimized. I think it would soon devolve into vigilante justice, which is always lurking underneath our attempts to create law and order.

[oggsmash]

  I can buy that capital punishment as carried out in the USA is usually unfair, can not be undone, and does not deter the crimes it is there for.  It is also hideously expensive.   That said, if I caught a person who killed, or say, sexually assaulted my wife or kids, I would have no issue torturing them to death for a few days.

There's a big difference between the legal process and personal reaction. If someone harmed my immediate family, I'd likely have a similar reaction. But I'm also glad that we have a legal system to prevent everyone from going there when a person is victimized. I think it would soon devolve into vigilante justice, which is always lurking underneath our attempts to create law and order.

    Vigilante justice also lurks just beneath when it is pretty clear the law will not be applied the same way to everyone.  I already know a rapist or child molester will not get the death penalty, and it should be a capital crime, if we are going to have capital crimes.     But I agree I like an impartial justice system.  I am just not too convinced our justice system in the USA is fair or impartial, and has never really been. 

[Pat]

Forbidden Empire (Viy in the original Russian). The name is utterly generic, and has nothing to do with the film (there are no empires; it's almost entirely set in a village). The cover is utterly generic as well. And I'm pretty sure I picked up it up at a dollar store, though it was apparently the highest grossing film in Russia in 2014. But there were problems with international distribution, so ended up direct to video in most countries. The dub isn't great. I had a hard time keeping the characters straight, because too many look alike. The plot doesn't seem like it's going anywhere for a lot of the film, and relies too heavily on a twist ending.

But it's spectacular. The special effects aren't the best I've ever seen, but they're great in a cheesy way, and very imaginative. It draws from Russian folklore rather than standard fantasy tropes, so it's distinctly different from generic Western fantasies without being completely unfamiliar. The plot is convoluted, but mostly holds together, and all the early scenes that initially seemed random or disconnected become essential parts of the climax. Reminds me most of Gilliam's The Brothers Grimm, or maybe Van Helsing.

It's very much an Age of Enlightenment fairy tale, mixing the wondrous and the meta. There are ugly little fairies, terrifying ghostly wolves, a weird eye creature, witches, horned beasts, body horror transformations, Science!, overly religious villagers, deception, betrayals, cartography, and an extended fight with a coffin. If you're running a fantasy game with fairy tale or weird fantasy elements, it's probably worth a watch. In fact, the whole thing could be adapted into an interesting adventure.

[oggsmash]

  Speaking of Russian movies, I enjoyed the Movies Nightwatch and Daywatch.  I thought there was supposed to be a third, but if memory serves the director got sucked into hollywood and never did the third movie.

[Pat]

They're very different movies (more Russian World of Darkness), so I avoided making a direct comparison, but a few of the mythological elements in Forbidden Empire do have a similar feel to the Day/Nightwatch duology. (Which I also recommend.)

[BoxCrayonTales]

They're very different movies (more Russian World of Darkness), so I avoided making a direct comparison, but a few of the mythological elements in Forbidden Empire do have a similar feel to the Day/Nightwatch duology. (Which I also recommend.)

Urban fantasy. The genre you're trying to name is Urban Fantasy. There are over 60,000 urban fantasy books being sold on Amazon right now. Urban fantasy in its modern form has been around since the late 70s.

It's not "Russian World of Darkness" by a long shot. Russian Lost Girl is a much more apt comparison. It uses the same Light/Dark distinction.

[Pat]

They're very different movies (more Russian World of Darkness), so I avoided making a direct comparison, but a few of the mythological elements in Forbidden Empire do have a similar feel to the Day/Nightwatch duology. (Which I also recommend.)

Urban fantasy. The genre you're trying to name is Urban Fantasy. There are over 60,000 urban fantasy books being sold on Amazon right now. Urban fantasy in its modern form has been around since the late 70s.

It's not "Russian World of Darkness" by a long shot. Russian Lost Girl is a much more apt comparison. It uses the same Light/Dark distinction.

Patronizing much? I've read more than my fair share of authors like de Lint, Bull, and Gaiman. If I wanted to name the genre, I would have. But it's an RPG forum, so I made an RPG analogy instead. And note I said World of Darkness, not Vampire: The Whatever. That includes Changeling. And the corporate stuff in *watch is similar to that across several Storyteller games. Lost Girl isn't an RPG, and it's already partly Russian anyway, with Kenzi and episodes like the one with Baga Yaga.

[BoxCrayonTales]

They're very different movies (more Russian World of Darkness), so I avoided making a direct comparison, but a few of the mythological elements in Forbidden Empire do have a similar feel to the Day/Nightwatch duology. (Which I also recommend.)

Urban fantasy. The genre you're trying to name is Urban Fantasy. There are over 60,000 urban fantasy books being sold on Amazon right now. Urban fantasy in its modern form has been around since the late 70s.

It's not "Russian World of Darkness" by a long shot. Russian Lost Girl is a much more apt comparison. It uses the same Light/Dark distinction.

Patronizing much? I've read more than my fair share of authors like de Lint, Bull, and Gaiman. If I wanted to name the genre, I would have. But it's an RPG forum, so I made an RPG analogy instead. And note I said World of Darkness, not Vampire: The Whatever. That includes Changeling. And the corporate stuff in *watch is similar to that across several Storyteller games. Lost Girl isn't an RPG, and it's already partly Russian anyway, with Kenzi and episodes like the one with Baga Yaga.

I just despise World of Darkness (and not just because the owners are psycho SJWs) and wish that there were other games in the genre with communities worth discussing with. Sorry if I came across as patronizing.

[Pat]

I just despise World of Darkness (and not just because the owners are psycho SJWs) and wish that there were other games in the genre with communities worth discussing with. Sorry if I came across as patronizing.

Appreciate the de-escalation. It's a nice change from the norm. The wording in my reaction was probably a bit too strong, as well.

I don't disagree with you about World of Darkness (though I probably don't care as much), but it is the default reference point in the RPG world for the genre, and it shares a number of elements with Night/Daywatch, because they draw from the same urban fantasy tradition. Though it's worth noting that's a specific subset of urban fantasy in general -- de Lint is from a very different tradition, for instance.

[Omega]

Think mentioned this before. But since we are on the topic of Russian movies.

Picked up a copy of Koma and overall was an interesting idea. Really uneven, but interesting. Reminded me a tiny bit of the old superhero Horror series Dream Warriors.

Older Russian movies have liked include the various live action and animated tellings of the folk hero Ilya Muromets.

And the original unedited version of Cesta do praveku (Road to Prehistory), dubbed back in the 50s as Journey to the Beginning of Time is actually fairly entertaining and well done. Moves at a glacial pace but part of the point is the journey itself.

And if East Germany/Poland counts then there is The Silent Star, AKA: First Spaceship on Venus. Based off the Stanislaw Lem book. And speaking of whom. Theres at least 3 Solaris movies now. 2 Russian made and one rather lacking US remake.

[Bedrockbrendan]

Rewatched the Exorcist III the other day (and did a podcast on it): https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-nyag2-105be97

I first saw this one working in a local video store back when it came out and remember being surprised by how good it was (Part III's at that time, I think had a somewhat bad reputation, and Exorcist II wasn't very well loved). But this is a totally different feel from the first movie, and is more crime thriller, police procedural, with possession thrown in. It has a pretty cool core premise, and one of the most well constructed jump scares I have ever seen in a movie. Plus an entertaining performance from George C. Scott

Going to be doing a debate on whether Sleepwalkers (1992) is terrible or enjoyable soon

[Pat]

Near Extinction: Shangri-La: This is a weird one. Post-apocalypse. The world's frozen. There's a war between the surviving humans and the konglings. This is all established in a voiceover narration before the movie starts. The action starts in media res, with no idea who anybody is, or what they're doing. But they feel like a party of PCs. Everyone has a distinct appearance and quirky personality, a backstory with pathos, and a schtick or powers. But while the party is established fairly quickly, who is fighting who and why isn't clear. The start is really confusing. It's not clear the movie is going anywhere, it just feels like a random mess.

This is a fault, but it's also clearly a deliberate choice made by the movie's creators. There are a couple major twists, and they're holding back details to set up big reveals. But they do clear up most of the mess as the movie progresses, relying very heavily on flashbacks to both establish characters, and to establish the world. And there's a lot of world. Factions, complicated backstory, different allies, different enemies, a MacGuffin hunt or three, and so on. Again, it feels like an RPG, in particular someone's homebrew setting. I'm not going to pretend it all makes sense, but if you accept the the internal logic (lasers caused an ice age?), the plot mostly comes together. It's not great, but it is interesting in a weird way.

But even so, it feels like the pilot episode in a series. There's plot, but it's fairly light. The movie is mostly about establishing the world, the characters, and the mission; ends at the start of a quest rather than at the end; and there are a lot of loose ends, or just bizarre things that aren't explained (why everyone sleeps together half naked, for instance).

Definitely low budget. All the secret bases and high tech labs that are clearly just warehouses or empty offices. But not zero budget. They have practical and CGI special effects, and they're not complete garbage. Acting isn't amazing, but mostly seems serviceable. I'd watch a sequel.