Let's roll.

So the big deal about this episode is that the Mando met  Bo-Katan Kryze, a character from the animated Clone Wars series. Notably, they make a point that these Manadlorians don't adhere to the ideals he was taught. They take off their helmets in front of others, and Bo-Katan is very loose with her agreements if they don't favor her.
Now, I don't mind this. The Mandalorian was either going to have to ignore all the stuff from Clone Wars, or integrate it into the show. So they integrated it. I don't mind that some Mandalorian like Bo-Katan are not as honorable as others. She's power hungry, and driven to accomplish her goal of becoming the ruler of the Manalore society.

I'm not very thrilled about how she and her crew treated Mando as some kind of religious nut. I think they could have simply said that he was some kind of traditionalist, and modern Mandalorians are much more slack about such things. But hey, it was from her perspective as well. It could be said that Mando's tribe keep the old traditions and the others are failing to respect their culture.

I do mind that it came as part of a ham-handed infodump. The Mandalorian has been better about that up until now. It wasn't really integrated into the story so much as a commentary so they could get to the pew-pew actions. Mando could have been more disdainful of Bo-Katan's crew, and judgemental over her lack of principles.

I'm also wondering why Mando doesn't paint over his damn armor so people aren't constantly attacking him over his Beskar steel. That's getting old.

If the series addresses these issues, I don't have a problem with it, and it was a good episode after all.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2020, 01:20:16 PM
Looks like our favorite sourpuss is at it again.

(Mild spoilers)

https://twitter.com/anitasarkeesian/status/1327790541870796801

Okay, so in this particular instance she's wrong. For years feminists have been decrying "boobplate" as sexist and impractical, so artists have been giving us practical non-sexist armor that makes room for the boobs without emphasizing them like lingerie. So I don't understand why any feminist should be upset, as opposed to touting this as a good way to make female armor without being sexualized.

But on the other end of the spectrum... I see people coming out of the woodwork and defending actual "boobplate" (metal lingerie) as being totally necessary because it shows that the wearer is a woman and other silly excuses. All of which I think is completely false since Madalorian shows how to do that without making it sexy (I've heard some people claim they didn't immediately recognize the female armor as female until it was pointed out to them), and we all know the reason why "boobplate" exists is to be sexy.

The sexualization of women in media is one of the main reasons why so many women and girls are suddenly identifying as transmen or non-binary. They hate being sexualized and associated femaleness with sexualization, so they try to identify out of being sexualized. This doesn't fix anything and only exacerbates society's gender problems, because it implies that women's bodies are inherently sexual.

Anita is only contributing to this problem by implying that women's bodies are inherently sexual, so that any deviation from the "male norm" (which is a well-known sexist construct) is sexualization of women. Including a simple dent added so that your boobs aren't bound against your chest and cause you health problems. Newsflash: breast binding is dangerous!

To be entirely honest, I don't think many people would have a problem with boobplate if all the men wore equally ridiculous fetish wear.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 16, 2020, 03:31:48 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2020, 01:20:16 PM
Looks like our favorite sourpuss is at it again.

(Mild spoilers)

https://twitter.com/anitasarkeesian/status/1327790541870796801

Okay, so in this particular instance she's wrong. For years feminists have been decrying "boobplate" as sexist and impractical, so artists have been giving us practical non-sexist armor that makes room for the boobs without emphasizing them like lingerie. So I don't understand why any feminist should be upset, as opposed to touting this as a good way to make female armor without being sexualized.

But on the other end of the spectrum... I see people coming out of the woodwork and defending actual "boobplate" (metal lingerie) as being totally necessary because it shows that the wearer is a woman and other silly excuses. All of which I think is completely false since Madalorian shows how to do that without making it sexy (I've heard some people claim they didn't immediately recognize the female armor as female until it was pointed out to them), and we all know the reason why "boobplate" exists is to be sexy.

The sexualization of women in media is one of the main reasons why so many women and girls are suddenly identifying as transmen or non-binary. They hate being sexualized and associated femaleness with sexualization, so they try to identify out of being sexualized. This doesn't fix anything and only exacerbates society's gender problems, because it implies that women's bodies are inherently sexual.

Anita is only contributing to this problem by implying that women's bodies are inherently sexual, so that any deviation from the "male norm" (which is a well-known sexist construct) is sexualization of women. Including a simple dent added so that your boobs aren't bound against your chest and cause you health problems. Newsflash: breast binding is dangerous!

To be entirely honest, I don't think many people would have a problem with boobplate if all the men wore equally ridiculous fetish wear.

I disagree on a few points, but I"m putting a pin in that reply because I think it's the least interesting aspect of the episode, and I'd like to hear people talk about other stuff for a bit.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 16, 2020, 02:00:30 PM
Let's roll.

So the big deal about this episode is that the Mando met  Bo-Katan Kryze, a character from the animated Clone Wars series. Notably, they make a point that these Manadlorians don't adhere to the ideals he was taught. They take off their helmets in front of others, and Bo-Katan is very loose with her agreements if they don't favor her.
Now, I don't mind this. The Mandalorian was either going to have to ignore all the stuff from Clone Wars, or integrate it into the show. So they integrated it. I don't mind that some Mandalorian like Bo-Katan are not as honorable as others. She's power hungry, and driven to accomplish her goal of becoming the ruler of the Manalore society.

I'm not very thrilled about how she and her crew treated Mando as some kind of religious nut. I think they could have simply said that he was some kind of traditionalist, and modern Mandalorians are much more slack about such things. But hey, it was from her perspective as well. It could be said that Mando's tribe keep the old traditions and the others are failing to respect their culture.

I do mind that it came as part of a ham-handed infodump. The Mandalorian has been better about that up until now. It wasn't really integrated into the story so much as a commentary so they could get to the pew-pew actions. Mando could have been more disdainful of Bo-Katan's crew, and judgemental over her lack of principles.

I mean, they had just saved him and the Child, and in proper Mandalorian fashion, that probably earned them a bit of slack.

As for Bo-Katan treating Mando like a religious nut, I think it is more nuanced than that. Clearly, she has more knowledge of Mandalorian culture than he does. But at the same time, she knows he was raised by the remnants of Death Watch, and Bo-Katan was once a high-ranking member of Death Watch herself. I think she feels a certain guilt and/or responsibility for how he was raised.

At the same time, though, it is clear that her mission is to retake the Darksaber, which is basically Excalibur to the Mandalorians. She who pulls the Darksaber out of the back of some bastard who had it coming is the proper ruler of Mandalore. So that's Job One, helping out Mando a distant second.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 16, 2020, 02:00:30 PMI'm also wondering why Mando doesn't paint over his damn armor so people aren't constantly attacking him over his Beskar steel. That's getting old.

Because it's shiny, and a hard-won symbol of status among his people.

Quote from: Lurkndog on November 16, 2020, 11:54:04 PMI'm not very thrilled about how she and her crew treated Mando as some kind of religious nut. I think they could have simply said that he was some kind of traditionalist, and modern Mandalorians are much more slack about such things. But hey, it was from her perspective as well. It could be said that Mando's tribe keep the old traditions and the others are failing to respect their culture.

It didn't help the matter that the actress they picked to play the fake Mandalorean queen was terrible. I didn't buy her as an "Heiress" or a Mandalorian for one second. It also didn't help that the other two fake Mandaloreans were rolling their eyes at Mando through the entire episode.

The overall effects was not good for the character of Mando (who is supposedly the main character of the show). The fake queen lies to Mando, treats him like a child, goes back on her deal, and then reveals that her motivation is completely selfish. Yet, at the end, Mando gives her a "This is the Way" like he somehow approves. So incredibly sad.

Add this to the fact that Mando had to be rescued two episodes in a row.

This all ended up sacrificing the main character for some pointless Clone Wars fan service.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on November 17, 2020, 11:48:48 AM
This all ended up sacrificing the main character for some pointless Clone Wars fan service.

One of my big concerns for this season is that it's going to devolve into fan service at the expense of story. There's a place for references to previous material, but the best Star Wars (IMO) stands on it's own and creates more new lore than referencing old lore.

They can salvage this. This is the first time Mando has encountered non-Tribe Mandalorians. He has no context for Mandalorians who don't follow his creed. His "This is the way" reply, could be considered a politeness while he figures out where he stands on the subject. The show is setting up Bo-Katan as a character that Mando might have to deal with later.

Ah hell, random speculation, they set up Bo-Katan as a recurring character that Mando doesn't get along with, but is forced to work with, and at the end of the series, she gets the Darksaber, but Mando pulls a technicality on their deal, and gets the super sword and becomes leader of the Mandalorians. That would be fun if done right.

I don't think Mando wants to be ruler of the Mandalorians. Maybe the top guy in his sect, whatever that is.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much he even knows about the greater Mandalorian culture.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2020, 01:20:16 PM
Looks like our favorite sourpuss is at it again.

(Mild spoilers)

https://twitter.com/anitasarkeesian/status/1327790541870796801

Grifters gotta grift, y'know.

Though the funniest part was the people who'd actually worked with developing fem-friendly body armor jumping her case.

One thing from Star Wars lore that might be relevant to the discussion: The Mandalorian culture was spread across an interstellar empire at its peak. It's not just the planet of Mandalore and its moon. I don't know how many systems it comprised. If a number was ever given, it would have been in The Clone Wars or Star Wars Rebels, but I don't think there was ever any on-screen discussion. Wookieepedia talks about Mandalorian Space occupying thousands of systems, for what it's worth.

Given a large enough area of space, and a breakdown in communications following the Clone Wars and the conquest of Mandalore by the Galactic Empire, and the subsequent fall of the Empire, it's reasonable to think that Mando may have grown up either on the far fringes of Mandalorian culture, or entirely outside of it.

It seems clear that the "Tribe" he was adopted by were outcasts from Mandalorian society.

Mando Episode 12 is out, and it was full of good stuff.

Please refrain from spoilers until Monday. Thank you.

Quote from: Lurkndog on November 18, 2020, 10:40:46 AM
One thing from Star Wars lore that might be relevant to the discussion: The Mandalorian culture was spread across an interstellar empire at its peak. It's not just the planet of Mandalore and its moon. I don't know how many systems it comprised. If a number was ever given, it would have been in The Clone Wars or Star Wars Rebels, but I don't think there was ever any on-screen discussion. Wookieepedia talks about Mandalorian Space occupying thousands of systems, for what it's worth.

Given a large enough area of space, and a breakdown in communications following the Clone Wars and the conquest of Mandalore by the Galactic Empire, and the subsequent fall of the Empire, it's reasonable to think that Mando may have grown up either on the far fringes of Mandalorian culture, or entirely outside of it.

It seems clear that the "Tribe" he was adopted by were outcasts from Mandalorian society.

Maybe, but the flashback scenes show Mandaloreans fighting Seperatist droids. Since Mandalore wished to remain neutral during the Clone Wars (even during Maul's criminal empire reign), I wonder if the sect that Din is part of started out as a splinter group of Mandaloreans during the Clone Wars who believed in fighting for the Republic, or at least opposing the Seperatists.

Quote from: Lurkndog on November 21, 2020, 11:00:48 AM
Mando Episode 12 is out, and it was full of good stuff.

Please refrain from spoilers until Monday. Thank you.

I have many thoughts.

Quote from: jeff37923 on November 21, 2020, 11:55:49 AM
Maybe, but the flashback scenes show Mandaloreans fighting Seperatist droids. Since Mandalore wished to remain neutral during the Clone Wars (even during Maul's criminal empire reign), I wonder if the sect that Din is part of started out as a splinter group of Mandaloreans during the Clone Wars who believed in fighting for the Republic, or at least opposing the Seperatists.

The "covert" he was adopted by may simply have been on a planet the Separatists invaded, and once invaded, they fought back.

Not sure if that planet is supposed to have been Navarro, they look similar but there are a lot of dirtball frontier planets in this show.

Happy Monday, spoilers for Episode 12 to follow...
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Well, it seems that The Child can understand some speech.

If his race lives to be 800, that means that 8 human years equals one Yoda Year? If so, at age 50 he is.. six? I don't know, he seems younger than that. It is possible that his species' development doesn't line up with humans exactly. He seems far less verbal than a human child, but his Force abilities are pretty far along. And we haven't seen anyone changing his diapers, so hopefully he's able to use the fresher by himself.

There is speculation that the Walrus Men were hiding out in the room that used to be the Mandalorian armorer's forge.

According to the English subtitles, the armored transport speeder they commandeer from the Imperial Base is a "Trexler Marauder." Interestingly, the concept art at the end of the episode depicts it as a regular Imperial Troop Transport.

People have speculated that the thing in the laboratory on Navarro was Snoke, or a proto-Snoke, but I would be perfectly happy if The Mandalorian never acknowledges the existence of the sequel trilogy. I also hope the First Order is never mentioned.

It appears that the Imperial remnant's scheme was to harvest Baby Yoda's midichlorians and give them to an experimental subject, but the experiment failed and the subject died. Good. Can we forget about midichlorians now?

Nice to see an Imperial Light Cruiser make an appearance in live action. They made frequent appearances on Star Wars Rebels. Wookieepedia also lists this as an "Arquitens-class Command Cruiser" which seems appropriate for Moff Gideon's flagship. A full-fledged Star Destroyer would have been too much, particularly if Moff Gideon is flying under the radar of the New Republic.

I couldn't really make out what those sinister black things on Moff Gideon's ship were. They kind of looked like murdered-out Cylons. I've seen speculation that they are "Dark Troopers" as seen in the Star Wars: Dark Forces video game.

Can we call the dirty, half-starved stormtroopers from Season 1 "Stray Troopers?"

Also, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Quote from: Lurkndog on November 23, 2020, 11:21:47 AM
Happy Monday, spoilers for Episode 12 to follow...
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Well, it seems that The Child can understand some speech.

If his race lives to be 800, that means that 8 human years equals one Yoda Year? If so, at age 50 he is.. six? I don't know, he seems younger than that. It is possible that his species' development doesn't line up with humans exactly. He seems far less verbal than a human child, but his Force abilities are pretty far along. And we haven't seen anyone changing his diapers, so hopefully he's able to use the fresher by himself.

There is speculation that the Walrus Men were hiding out in the room that used to be the Mandalorian armorer's forge.

According to the English subtitles, the armored transport speeder they commandeer from the Imperial Base is a "Trexler Marauder." Interestingly, the concept art at the end of the episode depicts it as a regular Imperial Troop Transport.

People have speculated that the thing in the laboratory on Navarro was Snoke, or a proto-Snoke, but I would be perfectly happy if The Mandalorian never acknowledges the existence of the sequel trilogy. I also hope the First Order is never mentioned.

It appears that the Imperial remnant's scheme was to harvest Baby Yoda's midichlorians and give them to an experimental subject, but the experiment failed and the subject died. Good. Can we forget about midichlorians now?

Nice to see an Imperial Light Cruiser make an appearance in live action. They made frequent appearances on Star Wars Rebels. Wookieepedia also lists this as an "Arquitens-class Command Cruiser" which seems appropriate for Moff Gideon's flagship. A full-fledged Star Destroyer would have been too much, particularly if Moff Gideon is flying under the radar of the New Republic.

I couldn't really make out what those sinister black things on Moff Gideon's ship were. They kind of looked like murdered-out Cylons. I've seen speculation that they are "Dark Troopers" as seen in the Star Wars: Dark Forces video game.

Can we call the dirty, half-starved stormtroopers from Season 1 "Stray Troopers?"

Also, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Happy thanksgiving week everyone!

At first, when I saw bodies in tubes, I thought they were trying (unsucessfully) to re-start cloning technology.

My second thought is "Oh no, not Midichlorians again!"

But bear with me here.

What if Gideon's plan is to infuse regular people with Force ability? But... in the thousands of years of the galaxy, why hasn't someone tried this before?
I speculate, that they have. That trying to "force" the Force onto a being via blood transfusion results in a corrupted being. That it's a "Jurassic Park" level idea, that gives you what seems to be a really powerful being, but they get all physically and mentally fucked up from the process. (Observe the beings in the tubes didn't appear alien. They appered to be malformed humans) And so it's a line of thought that the Jedi consider unnatural, and has backfired on the Sith or whoever tried it in the past.
The suits are some means to control the subjects of the experiment, but Gideon's Force Troopers are going to be funky mutants that turn on him in the end.

And that's my speculation.