Quote from: Aos;261083I have a five and a seven year old. My oldest knew about star wars long before i ever mentioned it. When I drop them off at school, there are always a few SW backpacks in the mix. Star wars still owns a huge section of the toy isle, as well.

I'm not saying it's universal.  But there was a time when I could make a reference to a Star Wars as an example to illustrate a point and rely on my students to follow it.  I find that slowly but increasingly, I can't do so.  

Edit: I find this to sometimes be the case even if the kid is carrying around Star Wars pencil case or backpack. They know what Stars Wars is, of course, but they may never have seen any of the films.

Quote from: Vulgarian;261113I
They know what Stars Wars is, of course, but they may never have seen any of the films.

That is my point, really. They'll see them first chance they get, because they've been prepped.

Quote from: Jackalope;261074Actually, Titanic is a pretty straightforward example of the monomyth.

You have Kate Winslets character.  You see her in her Ordinary World.  She meets DiCaprio's character, both a Threshold Guardian and a Mentor.  She overcomes several challenges, retrieves the holy grail (love), and then returns to the Ordinary World a changed woman.

Almost all love stories follow the monomyth, and all "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back" stories do.

Only if you're stretching the term "monomyth" to just mean any kind of story that contains character development.  But that's not what the term means, as I understand it.

Love stories may involve some manner of personal growth, as do "coming of age" stories (my least favorite genre), but they are not a monomyth.  Some key pillars are "entering a strange world of supernatural powers and events", a "supernatural mentor", and finishing up with "hero gains powers to help mankind".  It also generally requires a single, decisive protagonist (and an argument can be made for Leo as the main protagonist).  It also somewhat presupposes a male hero.

Kate may be slumming it with Leo, but that's hardly entering a world of strange supernatural powers and events (there's a dualism with Leo entering her world as well).  Leo may encourage Kate to try new things, but she equally does so with him, so he's certainly not a supernatural mentor.  She may end up a happier person in the end, but she's hardly a savior of mankind (if anything, there's a stronger case for Leo being the savior since he at least saves her).

To me, the monomyth thing is a load of BS.  It's like cold calling with psychics - it gets as much wrong with any given example as it does right.  The fact that Campbell basically says "there's 16 stages but they can be in any order and any given story will contain only certain stages" makes it a meaningless concept.  It's so vague that all it really does is confirm that most stories are based on a few universal themes - something that people discovered hundreds (if not thousands) of years ago.

I've distilled the secrets of storytelling down to this core thing:

All successful stories are entertaining.  Except the ones that are not really entertaining, but instead hold meaningful truths. Or the ones that resonate with the ages but are actually sort of dull.


Yeah. So if you keep that in mind, you too can write hugely successful stories.

Quote from: jgants;261160Only if you're stretching the term "monomyth" to just mean any kind of story that contains character development.  But that's not what the term means, as I understand it.

Love stories may involve some manner of personal growth, as do "coming of age" stories (my least favorite genre), but they are not a monomyth.  Some key pillars are "entering a strange world of supernatural powers and events", a "supernatural mentor", and finishing up with "hero gains powers to help mankind".  It also generally requires a single, decisive protagonist (and an argument can be made for Leo as the main protagonist).  It also somewhat presupposes a male hero.

Kate may be slumming it with Leo, but that's hardly entering a world of strange supernatural powers and events (there's a dualism with Leo entering her world as well).  Leo may encourage Kate to try new things, but she equally does so with him, so he's certainly not a supernatural mentor.  She may end up a happier person in the end, but she's hardly a savior of mankind (if anything, there's a stronger case for Leo being the savior since he at least saves her).

To me, the monomyth thing is a load of BS.  It's like cold calling with psychics - it gets as much wrong with any given example as it does right.  The fact that Campbell basically says "there's 16 stages but they can be in any order and any given story will contain only certain stages" makes it a meaningless concept.  It's so vague that all it really does is confirm that most stories are based on a few universal themes - something that people discovered hundreds (if not thousands) of years ago.

Okay.  Not going to argue it with you.

Just think you're full of shit.

Edit to Add: Requiring overt supernaturalism in post-magical realism fiction is ludicrous.

Quote from: Spike;261177All successful stories are entertaining.  Except the ones that are not really entertaining, but instead hold meaningful truths. Or the ones that resonate with the ages but are actually sort of dull.

Indeed, a profound truth. Shall we call it the Spikist Principle?

Works for me!