Ok, it's worth the watch just because Jenny is a fun theme park reviewer.
But also, I find the concept of a luxury liner that's supposed to have existed through all the major Star Wars eras intriguing. Like, a ship that theoretically could have hosted, been visited by, or encountered by all the major Star Wars characters at one point or another.
Four hours is way too long for a youtube video, but I think I got the gist of it by skipping to the conclusion.
I do want to go to see Galaxy's Edge before it goes away.
Unfortunately family issues ruined my vacation plans for this year.
As for Galactic Starcruiser, it was just way, way too expensive to even consider. Unless I got to spend an hour hanging out with Mark Hamill and George Lucas.
Quote from: Lurkndog on May 29, 2024, 12:44:50 PMFour hours is way too long for a youtube video, but I think I got the gist of it by skipping to the conclusion.
I do want to go to see Galaxy's Edge before it goes away.
Unfortunately family issues ruined my vacation plans for this year.
As for Galactic Starcruiser, it was just way, way too expensive to even consider. Unless I got to spend an hour hanging out with Mark Hamill and George Lucas.
Oh yeah. I haven't gone, I doubt many have, but I think it's yet more evidence that Disney has completely bungled the Star Wars IP.
Her point that the more ambitious and "cool" ideas were put behind the physical paywall of the Galactic Starcruiser seems very likely to me.
The basic reason is simple. It cost $6,000 or more for a family to stay there for a two day stay that isn't even all-inclusive. That's way too much for a two day stay at a theme hotel.
Having watched a bit more of the video, it seems like one of the fundamental issues that they did not solve was the need to have different experiences for different types of visitors.
- You need to have something for the little ones, something not too scary where they can run around a little.
- You need to have something for the older kids who want something more like an adventure or wish fulfilment.
- You need something for the kids' parents, some of whom won't even know what Star Wars is, but want their kids to have a great time, and to have some fun along with them.
- You need something for the older Star Wars fans, who want some kind of immersion and unique stuff you can't get from a mall.
There's also the person who wants to go to Star Wars Westworld. They're not going to get that at a Disney park, and you should be clear and up front about that.
Instead, it seems like all you got from Galactic Starcruiser was an experience for somebody else's kids, at an exorbitant rate.
Things they could have done, most of these would be Galaxy's Edge and not just the Starcruiser:
- A high quality Star Wars themed kids' playground, where you can meet C3PO, R2D2, and maybe some other child-friendly characters.
- For the teenage boys, the best Star Wars themed laser tag ever made.
- For the teenage girls, a Star Wars Princess Leia experience, maybe? Or just a nice cosplay area and shop.
- For Mom & Dad, have photo ops and decent food, which from what I have heard, they pretty much did.
- For the older Star Wars fans, the build-a-droid/saber shops are good, but they could also have some museum-type stuff, maybe a place where you can have a behind-the-scenes experience with an ILM staffer.
Disney's largest mistake was concentrating on the theme hotel and theme park being extensions of the sequel trilogy, which the majority don't really care about. The overpricing of both Galaxy's Edge and Galactic Starcruiser is just the completion of the concept that woke Disney made some shitty movies that didn't bring in the money like they wanted and the theme parks will make up for it.
Quote from: jeff37923 on May 29, 2024, 09:09:52 PMDisney's largest mistake was concentrating on the theme hotel and theme park being extensions of the sequel trilogy, which the majority don't really care about. The overpricing of both Galaxy's Edge and Galactic Starcruiser is just the completion of the concept that woke Disney made some shitty movies that didn't bring in the money like they wanted and the theme parks will make up for it.
I hate to keep beating that dead horse, but yeah. If I was given a all expenses paid free pass, I'd skip it just because it's set in the sequels.
I wouldn't even want to go to mock it, and every time I saw an iStormtrooper, I'd be a little depressed.
Quote from: yosemitemike on May 29, 2024, 06:15:45 PMThe basic reason is simple. It cost $6,000 or more for a family to stay there for a two day stay that isn't even all-inclusive. That's way too much for a two day stay at a theme hotel.
It was more than a theme hotel.
It was a hotel combined with a (poorly thought out) LARP.
Disney got on one of the LARP forums and asked alot of questions about LARPing and we answered as best we could.
We called it that they were planning some manner of interactive park. And not long after the interview Disney filed a patent on some LARP-like tech. And sure enough a few years later and SW: Galaxies is announced.
I wanted to go see it and the starship but alas that was never to be.
Take note in the review how she had so many problems with things going awry.
On a related note. The overly ambitious Evermore fantasy theme park/LARP closed down after years of decline.
I hope they return all the REAL gravestones from other countries they bought as props.
The train is for sale for like 200k apparently.
Quote from: Omega on May 30, 2024, 05:09:43 AMDisney got on one of the LARP forums and asked alot of questions about LARPing and we answered as best we could.
We called it that they were planning some manner of interactive park. And not long after the interview Disney filed a patent on some LARP-like tech. And sure enough a few years later and SW: Galaxies is announced.
I wanted to go see it and the starship but alas that was never to be.
Take note in the review how she had so many problems with things going awry.
They could have made it work.
Star Tours ran as a semi-interactive ride for decades.
Quote from: jeff37923 on May 30, 2024, 02:10:12 PMQuote from: Omega on May 30, 2024, 05:09:43 AMDisney got on one of the LARP forums and asked alot of questions about LARPing and we answered as best we could.
We called it that they were planning some manner of interactive park. And not long after the interview Disney filed a patent on some LARP-like tech. And sure enough a few years later and SW: Galaxies is announced.
I wanted to go see it and the starship but alas that was never to be.
Take note in the review how she had so many problems with things going awry.
They could have made it work. Star Tours ran as a semi-interactive ride for decades.
There's a huge difference between a single contained ride where all the employees had to do was load you into/out of theatre boxes where you watch one of a handful of slightly interactive films vs dozens of employees pulling off multiple lines of extended LARPing.
Quote from: jeff37923 on May 30, 2024, 02:10:12 PMThey could have made it work. Star Tours ran as a semi-interactive ride for decades.
Star Trek TNG had a thing in Vegas very similar but on a smaller scale. No game-like elements though.
And of course the failed plan to make a LARP style Dream Park experience. With game elements. There was an article in Scry on it back in the 90s.
It can be done. But according to someone who worked on construction of the project the Execs kept trying to push for a deadline without enough of a safety buffer. This is the end result.
Quote from: HappyDaze on May 30, 2024, 03:11:09 PMQuote from: jeff37923 on May 30, 2024, 02:10:12 PMQuote from: Omega on May 30, 2024, 05:09:43 AMDisney got on one of the LARP forums and asked alot of questions about LARPing and we answered as best we could.
We called it that they were planning some manner of interactive park. And not long after the interview Disney filed a patent on some LARP-like tech. And sure enough a few years later and SW: Galaxies is announced.
I wanted to go see it and the starship but alas that was never to be.
Take note in the review how she had so many problems with things going awry.
They could have made it work. Star Tours ran as a semi-interactive ride for decades.
There's a huge difference between a single contained ride where all the employees had to do was load you into/out of theatre boxes where you watch one of a handful of slightly interactive films vs dozens of employees pulling off multiple lines of extended LARPing.
The hotel's adventure structure was not fully freeform. If you did not hit the cues at the right time you could easily miss out on things. Or even nigh everything.
The actors must have had alot of pressure on them as they had to both know their beats AND be able to improvise. Like LARP NPCs. Just more rigid it seems.
Quote from: Omega on May 30, 2024, 05:03:14 AMQuote from: yosemitemike on May 29, 2024, 06:15:45 PMThe basic reason is simple. It cost $6,000 or more for a family to stay there for a two day stay that isn't even all-inclusive. That's way too much for a two day stay at a theme hotel.
It was more than a theme hotel.
It was a hotel combined with a (poorly thought out) LARP.
Based around the sequels, expensive as fuck too.
Has anyone ever released the internal numbers on the hotel?
I know there were only 100 total rooms. So let's say 5,000 bookings a year.
I'm guessing Disney spent an extra let's say $10 million over and above the cost of building a basic hotel, for the snazzy space decorations and the imagineering behind them.
If they wanted to break even in two years, $10M / 10,000 bookings = $1000 per room just to pay for the public spaces.
That's assuming they ran once a week, they could probably run twice a week if they had the staffing. Normal hotels run seven days a week, but Galactic Starcruiser wasn't normal.
It's early in the morning and I haven't had my coffee, so take these numbers with a grain of salt.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 30, 2024, 10:55:51 PMQuote from: Omega on May 30, 2024, 05:03:14 AMQuote from: yosemitemike on May 29, 2024, 06:15:45 PMThe basic reason is simple. It cost $6,000 or more for a family to stay there for a two day stay that isn't even all-inclusive. That's way too much for a two day stay at a theme hotel.
It was more than a theme hotel.
It was a hotel combined with a (poorly thought out) LARP.
Based around the sequels, expensive as fuck too.
6000$ minimum for 2 nights and 2 people. NOT including other expenses.
And yeah. Sequel era.
Quote from: Lurkndog on May 31, 2024, 08:12:08 AMHas anyone ever released the internal numbers on the hotel?
I know there were only 100 total rooms. So let's say 5,000 bookings a year.
I'm guessing Disney spent an extra let's say $10 million over and above the cost of building a basic hotel, for the snazzy space decorations and the imagineering behind them.
If they wanted to break even in two years, $10M / 10,000 bookings = $1000 per room just to pay for the public spaces.
it was something like 3k per person, but near the end seemed to drop to around 2k before extras. And if you opted to spend part of the stay at Galaxies Edge, that could cost you alot more.
Assuming an average of 3 people then that is 7200 so upwards of what 30mil a year? IF they filled all rooms every time.
We now know what the wrong amount to charge was.
What would have been the right amount to charge for a Star Wars themed hotel? And working backwards from that, what should guests have expected.
I'll start with $400 a night. What that should buy you is themed decor, blue milk at breakfast, and access to a Star Wars themed nightclub with some musical and dance acts, followed by one of the movies. You also get an all expense paid pass to Galaxy's Edge/Disney World.
No LARP. You're going to the park during the day.
I also like the idea of changing the era every year, like the Renaissance Faire does. One year is Original Trilogy, the next it's Prequel Era, then Sequel Era. Maybe even theme them by individual movies. The entrance to the land carries signage that gives a synopsis of the era, very much like the opening crawl of the movies.
Quote from: Lurkndog on June 02, 2024, 05:41:39 PMI'll start with $400 a night.
That's not how Orlando works.
Quote from: Lurkndog on June 02, 2024, 05:41:39 PMNo LARP. You're going to the park during the day.
People did that normally without the hotel.
The high price was supposed ti be an experience like being part of a movie. But unlike the Star Trek Vegas attraction. You did not get a VHS of it afterwards.
I think they had the right idea. But overextended and dropped the ball advertising and actuating some of the things going on there.
Quote from: Omega on June 03, 2024, 03:28:39 AMQuote from: Lurkndog on June 02, 2024, 05:41:39 PMNo LARP. You're going to the park during the day.
People did that normally without the hotel.
The high price was supposed ti be an experience like being part of a movie. But unlike the Star Trek Vegas attraction. You did not get a VHS of it afterwards.
Right, but it was way too expensive and it didn't work, so I am trying to figure out how they could have scaled it down to something the market would bear.
The basic problems are that it costs too much run for a small hotel with only 100 rooms. That means they have to charge guests more than the vast majority of people are willing to pay in order to recoup their costs. What they need to do is to drastically reduce costs. It might work if they scaled it down to something like dinner theater. Instead of trying to do this full time immersive LARP thing, there would be maybe 3 shows a day. They could have a different show for each trilogy. The rest of the time it would just be a hotel with staff in Star Wars costume. That would simplify the logistics of it and reduce labor costs quite a lot. You wouldn't need such a rigid schedule of events to create the experience full time or a staff of actors that are on and in character all the time. You could also get customers that are not staying at that hotel for showings. That would greatly expand the potential number of customers.
I think they tried to do too much with it and underestimated just how much the system could and very did fail if a visitor failed to hit one of the ques. Like the video shows one slip up and your whole experience gets thrown way the hell off.
Too regimented. Which is a pitfall some LARP events can suffer.
One other thing they could have done, but AFAIK didn't:
In the current Star Wars media, characters converse over long distances via holo-projector, where there is a small disc on the bridge of a starship, or in a building, and it projects a small image of the person you are talking to. I guess it all goes back to the holo of Princess Leia R2D2 was carrying in Star Wars.
Anyway, hologram projectors exist in real life. It would be cool to have one, and have it be a way of interacting with taped holos of named characters they can't afford to have on site.
They are also expensive for the good ones.
But yah a holo projector, even a simple prism and mirror arrangement could have been done on the cheap and still look passable.
I do not recall any of the videos showing holograms. But they may have just not shown right.
But you still have the problem if the adventure system being buggy as hell. Without a fix to that everything else falls apart as was shown.
There is a small rumor that they may try to retool it to Marvel. Cant see that working with anything other than Guardians of the Galaxy. They'd sure as hell need to fix the adventure system first.
Quote from: Omega on June 07, 2024, 03:05:49 PMThey are also expensive for the good ones.
But yah a holo projector, even a simple prism and mirror arrangement could have been done on the cheap and still look passable.
I do not recall any of the videos showing holograms. But they may have just not shown right.
In the video, there were a few holograms in the lobby, and one that was part of a scripted event.
2:52:40 on Jenny's video.
For me, the crazy part was that, at $6,000+ for two nights, it wasn't even all inconclusive. If you wanted to do the lightsaber building thing, that cost extra. If you wanted to do the build a droid thing, that cost extra. If you wanted to go to the cantina, that cost extra and there was a time limit. It just stank of trying to milk more money out of people who were already paying an exorbitant amount.
The lightsaber thing was in the Galaxies Edge theme part outside. Effectively two different places you just had a little window to venture out onto. Which might cost you hotel events.
You had to schedule the lightsaber or droid building stuff no matter. The lightsabers were pretty nifty. But you could likely not carry them around in the hotel since they did not permit alot of things.
But yeah. 6000$ plus add ons adds up to alot really quick. You could easily top 7000$ if you splurged.
I don't mind the create-a-saber and create-a-droid being separate. I wouldn't do either, simply because I have no space to display them in.
That was very interesting. I like how a 'influencer' actually had better, and more practical ideas on how to improve the 'experience', that would also have been cost effective. took me 3 days to watch it all.
I also liked the post mortem, where disnee painted themselves into a corner by placing hte hotel behind the park where access is terrible, etc. so that it makes it super hard to reuse or repurpose, tho i think she came up with a good idea to reuse it.
I could use this as evidence that the great dumbing down of american generations led to this disaster, people who think they are smart, yet have no real clues about how the real world works, in terms of business. yeah im an old fart, but jenny is young, she had great insight and ideas.
Quote from: Lurkndog on June 10, 2024, 10:52:16 AMI don't mind the create-a-saber and create-a-droid being separate. I wouldn't do either, simply because I have no space to display them in.
It just seems a bit much to upcharge people for that stuff when they are already paying $6,000+.
Quote from: Lurkndog on June 10, 2024, 10:52:16 AMI don't mind the create-a-saber and create-a-droid being separate. I wouldn't do either, simply because I have no space to display them in.
Whats sad is that you can leave the hotel/ship and go get your saber and then can not bring it back into the hotel. Winder if cant bring the droid either?
And the Galaxy Edge area has a prohibition on costuming so what happens to the people in costume for the ship???
Moot point now. But makes you wonder how they juggled the conflicting restrictions when it was running.
Quote from: orbitalair on June 10, 2024, 11:11:00 AMThat was very interesting. I like how a 'influencer' actually had better, and more practical ideas on how to improve the 'experience', that would also have been cost effective. took me 3 days to watch it all.
As noted before. They questioned us in the LARPing forums before ever even planning this and far as we can guess is they walked away with the idea of NPCs and quests. But then filed patent on the mission organizer and interactive environment before opening Galaxies Edge and then the starship hotel.
Automating it was a good idea. But I bet they never playtested it, or did not playtest it at high capacity.
They could repurpose the ship into a Guardians of the Galaxy hotel. IF they retooled the system.
Quote from: yosemitemike on June 10, 2024, 11:47:19 AMQuote from: Lurkndog on June 10, 2024, 10:52:16 AMI don't mind the create-a-saber and create-a-droid being separate. I wouldn't do either, simply because I have no space to display them in.
It just seems a bit much to upcharge people for that stuff when they are already paying $6,000+.
Disney's treatment of guests has deteriorated even more than the parks have.
Quote from: Omega on June 11, 2024, 09:13:03 AMQuote from: orbitalair on June 10, 2024, 11:11:00 AMThat was very interesting. I like how a 'influencer' actually had better, and more practical ideas on how to improve the 'experience', that would also have been cost effective. took me 3 days to watch it all.
As noted before. They questioned us in the LARPing forums before ever even planning this and far as we can guess is they walked away with the idea of NPCs and quests. But then filed patent on the mission organizer and interactive environment before opening Galaxies Edge and then the starship hotel.
Automating it was a good idea. But I bet they never playtested it, or did not playtest it at high capacity.
They could repurpose the ship into a Guardians of the Galaxy hotel. IF they retooled the system.
Yeah its not the theme, its all the elements therein. like the other 2 gameplay tests they did (not using smartphones but paper booklets), seemed to be on the right track. But were never used.
The droid tests, that again werent used. The interactive elements that were never installed in a new building.
Someone in the comments mentioned Laser Tag as an activity, that could have been pretty interesting. Esp if one could incorporate light sabers in the game.
As a guest the 100% dependence on a smartphone with a highly confusing app would have killed it for me. I go on vacation to ditch my phone.
A fundamental problem is how do you engage everyone at the same level of intensity in a LARP with only 2-3 story threads?? A Braun type game works with say 10-20 people, but 200 ? A better tack may have been to have disney player take 8-12 guests as their 'faction' when they arrived. Disney could preset the guests or let them pick a faction before the 'cruise', much like you set your options before a real cruise. This disney player would be the leader for the 2 days. This keeps everyone organized and engaged.
Ultimately they married the most expensive elements(hotel, live show, fine dining) into a small venue with no way to recoup the investment or operating expenses. Business 101.
uh after writing all this it feels like dead horse beating.
Have great day everyone.
The creator of Photon way back had the idea of making Niven's Dream Park novels into a reality. Just with light guns and special melee weapons and practical effects instead of animatronics, actors and holograms. Even prototyped a place. But the tech just had not yet caught up with the concept.
I think with the advances made we are close. I just think no one really expected holograms to never get as sophisticated as Dream Park.
Defunctland just posted this Kids City LARP-like city sim for kids and holy heck Disney should have taken notes from this set up and execution. Too bad it had so many problems behind the scenes. Also a neat little history of various similar efforts.
Quote from: Lurkndog on May 29, 2024, 12:44:50 PMFour hours is way too long for a youtube video
You don't spend much time on YouTube, I guess :P