TheRPGSite

Two students attacked Germantown High's Frank Burd after he confiscated an iPod in class, officials said.
By Joseph A. Gambardello and Robert Moran
Inquirer Staff Writers
A popular Germantown High School teacher was assaulted by two students and hospitalized after he took an iPod from one during class yesterday, officials said.

Frank Burd, 60, was in a hallway after his 11th-grade math class shortly after 11 a.m. when he was confronted by the 17-year-old student who brought the iPod to class.

A 15-year-old student joined the confrontation and either punched or helped to trip Burd, who fell and hit his head against a locker, said Fernando Gallard, spokesman for the Philadelphia School District.

Burd, who has been active in local theater productions, was taken to Albert Einstein Medical Center with two broken bones in his neck and a gash to his head, said Paul G. Vallas, the district's chief executive.

"They decided to wait until class had been completed, and they decided to assault the teacher outside class," Vallas said.

The students, whose names were not released, fled the high school and were later arrested, police said. Both students, who were described as special-education students, were being interviewed last night at Northwest Detectives.

The 15-year-old, a ninth grader, was in the process of being transferred to an alternative disciplinary school when the assault occurred, Gallard said. He had been transferred to such a school during the last school year.
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The rest of the article can be found here (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/16772097.htm)

These students are getting out of control, attacking teachers when they take away something they damn well know they shouldnt have in the first place.

Give them a math test. Afterwards administer severe beatings, with the guy whose test score was lower getting the worst one.

If all they can understand is violence, they have to be taught in their own language.

Quote from: James McMurrayGive them a math test. Afterwards administer severe beatings, with the guy whose test score was lower getting the worst one.

If all they can understand is violence, they have to be taught in their own language.

There were only charged as Juveniles and thank god they wont be going back to the school.

The teachers neck was broken but he apparently is going to be ok.

Just the other day I was talking with a friend of mine who has two kids(one 8 one 13).  His youngest liked this girl (young love is so cute, right?).  Well, apparently another kid liked her too, so this other kid pulled a knife on him and told him to not talk to her or he'd kill him!  Holy shit!  Back in my day you had a few stoners and maybe a bully or two, but this???  These damned kids are animals!

Something is to blame with these kids' piss poor behavior and it's probably the parents (or lack thereof).

Kids these days!  Why, back in day...

!i!

Quote from: MegamanfanJust the other day I was talking with a friend of mine who has two kids(one 8 one 13).  His youngest liked this girl (young love is so cute, right?).  Well, apparently another kid liked her too, so this other kid pulled a knife on him and told him to not talk to her or he'd kill him!  Holy shit!  Back in my day you had a few stoners and maybe a bully or two, but this???  These damned kids are animals!

Something is to blame with these kids' piss poor behavior and it's probably the parents (or lack thereof).

I have to say I agree that its the parents fault.

Also, I am glad you guys are being more mature, I posted this same topic on rpg.net and the idiots are already calling me a troll.

God, I am begining to hate that place.

Well, I dunno if things are so much worse than they were in our day, or if memory bathes everything in a rosy glow of nostalgia.

I grew up in a very protected suburban setting, and so my initial reaction to (for instance) the drawing-a-knife story above is "Wow, that's crazy!  I never had anyone draw a knife on me at school!"  But then, when I thought about it, I had to admit "Oh yeah, there was that gang of kids who invaded our playground that one day ... and there was that crazy kid in the hallway that one time ..."  So, in fact, I had similar experiences twice.  Yet my general sense of school is one of stolid, boring, safety.  The experiences obviously didn't effect me as much as a kid as they would as a parent.

So are things really worse than in our day?  Or are we less able to ignore the problems when we're grown up enough to feel like we are responsible for the world they're part of?

I grew up in  aschool where I received at least one group beating a week if I wasn't alert enough to avoid the gangs, all because I'm not brown enough. I don't think things are much worse than they used to be, they're just more public now.

Oddly enough, the high school I went to in a small town had an opposite ratio. My middle school had 6 whites and my high school had 6 non whites. The high school didn't have any racial violence at all though. We had more than our fair share of hicks and rednecks, but for some reason racism wasn't an issue. What kind of music you listened to determined who hated who there.

Quote from: TonyLBWell, I dunno if things are so much worse than they were in our day, or if memory bathes everything in a rosy glow of nostalgia.

I have an excellent memory of my childhood, including not only the bad but things that I didn't understand then but do understand now.  Yes, memory bathes things in a rosy glow of nostalgia but the very real difference was that when I was a child, parents wouldn't automatically defend their kids and adults who complained about children were not automatically told to mind their own business.  There were commercials when I was a kid that told kids, "The most important person in the whole wide world is you!" and the focus on self-esteem has only gotten worse.  That's not how you create a well-socialized child.  That's how you create a narcissist.  And if you watch sports or wrestling or movie stars, humility is dead as a virtue.

Children also seem to no longer just "Go outside and play!"  A few years ago, there was a power outage in my neighborhood late in a weekend morning.  Suddenly, I heard children all over the neighborhood outside playing, that I had never heard before.  The children didn't suddenly appear with the blackout.  They'd always been there but just didn't normally play outside.  It was like that episode of the Simpsons where the parents turn off the TVs and suddenly the neighborhood is full of children playing outside, rubbing their eyes from their unfamiliarity with the sun.  There are plenty of reasons for this (e.g., safety, parents' jobs, the coarsening of public spaces), but I doubt that the absence of unstructured and unsupervised interaction with peers doesn't help a child's social skills, either.

Clearly, this example is representative of all young persons alive today. Because if it's not, it's yellow journalism.

Well at the middle school I work at the students are allowed to listen to their iPods in math class if they have head phones, after they have recieved instruction. Kinda weirded me out since before this I was working in the Algebra support classes (read: endanger of failing) where this wasn't allowed by any means.

The kids I see during my lunch break aren't playing sports so much as talking, holding hands, or very often playing their PSPs and Gameboys, or rocking out with an iPod. Very different from what I remember of middle school, which often involved bullying, sports, a chess club, an archery club, and Magic the Gathering as the main past times.

I can only imagine the students, attacking an instructor. Ouch! Some of these kids have gotten detention for bringing switchblades to school. Not that I blame them. Three months ago one young girl was sexually assaulted by a man, while she walking home from school. He wasn't caught, at least not that I've heard. The students have been advised to walk in groups now.

I honestly don't buy the whole "things were as bad in our day" line. There's no way that's true, because THESE days, the sense of entitlement, the glorification of violence and misogyny, the utter lack of respect or fear of consequences in young adults, much less kids - this thing is far wors that is was back in the day, and destined to get worse, IMHO.

Quote from: WerekoalaI honestly don't buy the whole "things were as bad in our day" line. There's no way that's true, because THESE days, the sense of entitlement, the glorification of violence and misogyny, the utter lack of respect or fear of consequences in young adults, much less kids - this thing is far wors that is was back in the day, and destined to get worse, IMHO.

Then your opinion is wrong, and does not derive from a true evaluation of either the past or the present states of the world.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineThen your opinion is wrong, and does not derive from a true evaluation of either the past or the present states of the world.

Opinions can't be wrong, that's why they're not called facts. But thanks for trying to set me straight. I didn't try to correct your opinion, evn though I felt you were wrong, I merely put in my .02Cr. But I guess some people are just compelled to be right. That being the case, we are left to assume you did not express an opinion, but a fact.

So, Mr. P - where is your research and data backing up your assertion that things aren't worse than they used to be, back in the good old days?

It is my opinion that your opinion is wrong.

Untangle that one, Socrates!

Ned

Quote from: WerekoalaThere's no way that's true, because THESE days, the sense of entitlement, the glorification of violence and misogyny, the utter lack of respect or fear of consequences in young adults, much less kids - this thing is far wors that is was back in the day, and destined to get worse, IMHO.

No, there was just the blatent racism, sexism and homophobia.  And deaths/disability due to diseases that are now part of history in developed countries

Here's an interesting piece of research for you to do.  When in your jurisdiction did it became illegal to rape your wife?

Huh? It can't be illegal to rape your wife any more than it's illegal to send a police officer to a crime scene. It's all duty.

Right?

-- If my wife reads this I may need someone to call the spousal abuse hotline for me. :D

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonNo, there was just the blatent racism, sexism and homophobia.  And deaths/disability due to diseases that are now part of history in developed countries

Here's an interesting piece of research for you to do.  When in your jurisdiction did it became illegal to rape your wife?

How far back did you think I was talking about? I was referring to the 1980's when I was in school (which is what we're TALKING about, not society in general).

Here's a piece of research for YOU: When did you become such a knee-jerking reactionary who has to take what someone says regarding a specific, turn it into a general, and then attack their point of view because you think they were talking about something totally different than was the topic?

Jesus, we ARE talking about a teacher getting attached by students over an iPod, right? And the general increase in such things in school and regarding school-aged kids? Or did I reply in the wrong thread?

The first time through I missed that they'd broken their neck. To me that screams being tried as an adult for attempted murder. It probably wouldn't stick, but the prospect of 30 years in prison might sober the punks up.

Quote from: James McMurrayThe first time through I missed that they'd broken their neck. To me that screams being tried as an adult for attempted murder. It probably wouldn't stick, but the prospect of 30 years in prison might sober the punks up.

I've been ... perplexed ... by that little quote.  I wonder if they got it entirely right.

My understanding is that the amount of force required to actually break a vertebra is ludicrous.  The odds of doing it twice in a shoving-and-falling situation, without severing the spinal column (unless I'm totally missing something) are vanishngly small.

Now this is from a martial arts point of view, so maybe there are some trauma specialists out there who will quickly set me straight, and tell me that breaking the bones in the neck is much easier than I'm imagining.  I'd be glad to know more.

But given what I know today, I'm sorely tempted to think that the guy broke his clavicle ... quite possibly on both sides, from being shoved hard into lockers.  That'd still put him in a pretty severe looking neck restraint (to keep him from moving his head and shoulders) and has the advantage of being an extremely likely injury from certain kinds of tussles (the mid-span clavicle being the worst ratio of bone-density to lever arm in the entire body).

If the paper got it right then I'm all like "Bwuh?  You broke two high vertabrae and didn't get paralyzed?  Man, you better start tithing awful quick, because your guardian angel deserves a whopping big tip for that kind of service."

Quote from: Blue DevilI have to say I agree that its the parents fault.

Also, I am glad you guys are being more mature, I posted this same topic on rpg.net and the idiots are already calling me a troll.

God, I am begining to hate that place.

 Beginning to ?
 I've already been in that mood for months now about rpg.net.


- E.W.C.

Quote from: WerekoalaOpinions can't be wrong, that's why they're not called facts.

Of course opinions can be wrong. Don't say dumb shit like that. What you want to say is something along the lines of "In matters of taste there can be no dispute", which is where the idea you just put forth comes from. But since this isn't a matter of taste, it's also completely irrelevant.

QuoteBut thanks for trying to set me straight. I didn't try to correct your opinion, evn though I felt you were wrong, I merely put in my .02Cr. But I guess some people are just compelled to be right. That being the case, we are left to assume you did not express an opinion, but a fact.

No, I expressed an opinion. Opinions are a kind of evaluation of facts. They can be correct and incorrect, just as facts can be.

QuoteSo, Mr. P - where is your research and data backing up your assertion that things aren't worse than they used to be, back in the good old days?

All over the place. Crime by youths is down, illegal drug use is down, unplanned teen pregnancy is down, child abuse is down, and child poverty is down over the past 25 years, if not longer in several cases (teen pregnancy has been declining since the 1950's, for example). Those are pretty good indicators that today's kids are better behaved than their parents were. What, other than silly reflections on the virtue of your own childhood, do you have to offer as counter-evidence?

QuoteHere's a piece of research for YOU: When did you become such a knee-jerking reactionary who has to take what someone says regarding a specific, turn it into a general, and then attack their point of view because you think they were talking about something totally different than was the topic?

You fucking sophist. You were the one who started talking about kids today. Stop sniveling and either defend or retract your statements.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineYou fucking sophist. You were the one who started talking about kids today. Stop sniveling and either defend or retract your statements.

Hey, you know what? You were absolutely right. I looked it up and violence in schools and such has been declining - at least up to 2001 which is the most recent I could find. The public perception on this, like many other things, is skewed by media as usual.

As an aside, I'm sure Hastur was glad to see you leap to his defense - very noble of you.

And hey, just because you're an immature cocksucker who can't back up their position without calling people a "fucking sophist" - you know, like by linking to information supporting YOUR point of view instead of just arguing from authority - is no reason to dispute the facts. Why, I'm sure you've swayed many people with your mature dialogs.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineWhat, other than silly reflections on the virtue of your own childhood, do you have to offer as counter-evidence?

This would have been a very good point, had you actually provided any evidence aside from your own say-so that YOU were right. Yes, you were, but you provided nothing to back it up. You're just lucky I took you seriously enough to actually do some research, because the Lord knows YOU didn't provide any. If you HAD, then none of this would've been necessary, now would it? But you probably like it this way.  

Now, anyone care to show me how an IL works?

Quote from: KoltarBeginning to ?
 I've already been in that mood for months now about rpg.net.


- E.W.C.

I guess I have a higher tollerance to bullshit.  Least the mod came in and shut the fucker up who was threadcrapping saying the thread was a trap.

Some boards have lower 'disagreement thresholds' than others. This board is willing to accept a wide range of opinion, without accusations of trolling, or of deliberate provocation. Whether this is indicative of a more tolerant group of people, or simply of a smaller board which hasn't completely established it's 'tone' yet, is a question I'm not wise enough to answer.

Quote from: WerekoalaNow, anyone care to show me how an IL works?

Click on their name by a post and then click on ignore.

Quote from: James McMurrayClick on their name by a post and then click on ignore.

Hummmm. Has a "buddylist" option, but not an "ignore" one. Ah well, thanks anyway.

Quote from: WerekoalaHummmm. Has a "buddylist" option, but not an "ignore" one. Ah well, thanks anyway.

You have to go to the user's Profile, first. The IL option is there.

Excellent, thanks.

Quote from: WerekoalaHey, you know what? You were absolutely right. I looked it up and violence in schools and such has been declining - at least up to 2001 which is the most recent I could find. The public perception on this, like many other things, is skewed by media as usual.

Congratulations on learning to use Google to investigate claims about the world. Next time, consult it beforehand. It makes you look like less of a dope.

QuoteAnd hey, just because you're an immature cocksucker who can't back up their position without calling people a "fucking sophist" - you know, like by linking to information supporting YOUR point of view instead of just arguing from authority - is no reason to dispute the facts. Why, I'm sure you've swayed many people with your mature dialogs.

I just swayed you actually, so it does seem to work. I didn't bother to cite things because these are well known, oft-cited pieces of information.

Also, you're not a fucking sophist because you disagreed with me, you're a sophist because, after saying that this was indicative of the state of moral conduct amongst today's youth and having that bullshit called, you gave us some gobbledygook about only being interested in this particular case or whatever.

QuoteThis would have been a very good point, had you actually provided any evidence aside from your own say-so that YOU were right. Yes, you were, but you provided nothing to back it up. You're just lucky I took you seriously enough to actually do some research, because the Lord knows YOU didn't provide any. If you HAD, then none of this would've been necessary, now would it? But you probably like it this way.

Rub some mud on it you fucking baby. I don't remember you being such a whiny shit back when you were slinging hell on the big purple.

I'm not going to cite shit an ordinary person can find on Google with two seconds of effort. Your real problem isn't that I didn't cite stuff, but that I was mean to you. Well, you deserved to have someone be mean to you for baselessly slandering an entire generation.

QuoteNow, anyone care to show me how an IL works?

Google and Ignore Lists, all in one day! Shit son, are you sure you don't want to sign up for Slashdot?

I have to say, in this particular exchange it isn't Werekoala coming out looking bad.

Werekoala, back when he used to post on the big purple, used to regularly post shit like he did in this thread - false statements long on rhetoric and short on research or reasoning. I had little patience for it then, and I have even less now.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineI had little patience for it then, and I have even less now.

That's the trouble with the older generation....

Quote from: PseudoephedrineWerekoala, back when he used to post on the big purple, used to regularly post shit like he did in this thread - false statements long on rhetoric and short on research or reasoning. I had little patience for it then, and I have even less now.

Whatever floats your boat. :)

Notice of course, its ME that's the problem. I even admitted he was right after doing the research. The whole thing could've been avoided without the holier-than-thou "I'm right, just accept it" attitude. One simple link to a study, or anything at ALL to back up what turned out the be the case, and it would have been a moot point, game set match Mr. P. But no. Its allll about Me.

Funny, I keep trying to tell people that but they always tell me its NOT all about me. So confusing.

Needless to say, I figured out the IL function, so it wasn't a totally wasted experience. First person I've even done that for, so I guess its a bit of a badge of honor.

It's easier to pretend I'm on your ignore list if you don't read and respond to my posts. Just a hint!

Quote from: droogThat's the trouble with the older generation....

Hah! ;)

Quote from: James McMurrayI have to say, in this particular exchange it isn't Werekoala coming out looking bad.

Really?  I think there's more than enough "looking stupid" going around to cover both of them twice over.  The challenge isn't to decide which one of them comes out looking bad, but to find any way in which either one of them doesn't.

:rolleyes:

Quote from: TonyLBReally?  I think there's more than enough "looking stupid" going around to cover both of them twice over.  The challenge isn't to decide which one of them comes out looking bad, but to find any way in which either one of them doesn't.

For what its worth, there's the fact that I admitted he was right and I was wrong? I mean hey, this debate could still be about the actual story that started it all, but instead its devolved into personal attacks. But at least I made the effort to back up my point of view, which is more than he did. I was wrong, I admitted it, I thought that might be the end of it. I was certainly willing to drop it there, since the whole "violence is increasing" statement was incorrect.

Seriously - why the response to my (wrong) opinion as if I'd shoved a hot wire up his wee-wee? Does he have a personal stake in the level of violence in schools? I mean damn, I made a statement that was wrong - not the end of the world, and won't be the last time.

It's because you're a koala. Now if you were a drop bear instead, then everyone would be afraid to mess with you.

Quote from: Blue DevilI have to say I agree that its the parents fault.

Hold on a second, I have to go try something. . .


Okay, I'm back now. I used every bit of concentration I could muster, but I just couldn't make my son's fist hit anything without actually grabbing his arm and moving it myself.

Thinking back. . . no, my folks' didn't control my arm movements when I threw down either. . .

This incident - which as a result, I hope the kids are nailed to the fucking wall - was the fault of the two punk mother fuckers who did it. Now maybe it's just me, but it seems like the people saying it's the parents' fault are the same type of people who bitch and moan when people don't take responsibility for their own actions.

Two kids assaulted someone. Regardless of their upbringing (which might have been great for all you fucking know), the final decision, and the responsibility is theirs. To lay the blame elsewhere is. . . stupid.

Quote from: danzig138Two kids assaulted someone. Regardless of their upbringing (which might have been great for all you fucking know), the final decision, and the responsibility is theirs. To lay the blame elsewhere is. . . stupid.

Agreed. If my 5 year old does something, that's my fault because I should be supervising him. If my 15 year old does something, it's his fault because he should be supervising himself. Perhaps it might have roots in how he was raised, perhaps not, but that doesn't excuse responsibility.

Quote from: WerekoalaSeriously - why the response to my (wrong) opinion as if I'd shoved a hot wire up his wee-wee? Does he have a personal stake in the level of violence in schools? I mean damn, I made a statement that was wrong - not the end of the world, and won't be the last time.

Should you go back and read the section of your post quoted immediately before my comment that you're a sophist, you'll see that I called you one in response to your calling Hastur someone "...a knee-jerking reactionary who has to take what someone says regarding a specific, turn it into a general, and then attack their point of view because you think they were talking about something totally different than was the topic?"

That's just a really shoddy attempt to lash out with rhetoric rather than respond to Hastur's point about improvements in society, and it's why I called you a sophist, and why I stand by that evaluation. All this crying now about how mean I am is utterly hypocritical. You can dish out attacks but not take them, and I've got no sympathy for that kind of bully. No one else seems to either.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070227/ap_on_re_us/self_centered_students

Quote from: danzig138Hold on a second, I have to go try something. . .


Okay, I'm back now. I used every bit of concentration I could muster, but I just couldn't make my son's fist hit anything without actually grabbing his arm and moving it myself.

Thinking back. . . no, my folks' didn't control my arm movements when I threw down either. . .

This incident - which as a result, I hope the kids are nailed to the fucking wall - was the fault of the two punk mother fuckers who did it. Now maybe it's just me, but it seems like the people saying it's the parents' fault are the same type of people who bitch and moan when people don't take responsibility for their own actions.

Two kids assaulted someone. Regardless of their upbringing (which might have been great for all you fucking know), the final decision, and the responsibility is theirs. To lay the blame elsewhere is. . . stupid.

I see your point, but the article says the little fuckers were already troublesome students, one of them on the verge of being transfered to another school. So my point is that their parents should have done something with them a while ago, say when they began with their behavior problems?
Im not saying you're wrong, 'cause you're not, I'm just saying that in this case a little more proactive parenting would've helped to prevent the incident.

Quote from: John Morrowhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070227/ap_on_re_us/self_centered_students

I'm special.:keke:
What...I am.:p

Quote from: John Morrowhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070227/ap_on_re_us/self_centered_students

The article itself points out that students volunteer more than ever. And its corroborating evidence - that students think it's important to be "well off financially" is somewhat dubious at showing how today's youth are self-centred narcissists. It seems like dubious psychometrics for the most part.

Quote from: UmaSamaI'm just saying that in this case a little more proactive parenting would've helped to prevent the incident.

And you know this how? My parents were proactive as hell, and I was screaming terror up until high school. I'd have still been a terror in high school, but I never went to class.

Some kids are just punks, regardless of their parentage.

Well at least some teachers are making a difference to our troubled youth, as noted in this article from The Onion: Inner-City Teacher Inspires Students To Stab Him (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/inner_city_teacher_inspires).
:haw:

Quote from: PseudoephedrineWerekoala, back when he used to post on the big purple, used to regularly post shit like he did in this thread - false statements long on rhetoric and short on research or reasoning. I had little patience for it then, and I have even less now.

Since we're dredging up cross-board history to account for current behavior, didn't you once or twice intimate that you were chronically mentally ill over on tBP?  Or am I confusing you with someone by a similar name?  It's difficult to tell with the hobbled search function over there.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSince we're dredging up cross-board history to account for current behavior, didn't you once or twice intimate that you were chronically mentally ill over on tBP?  Or am I confusing you with someone by a similar name?  It's difficult to tell with the hobbled search function over there.

Well, regardless, at least I've learned never to disagree with him. I'm sure that tickles him to no end. Now I just won't engage him in conversation anymore. Problem solved.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSince we're dredging up cross-board history to account for current behavior, didn't you once or twice intimate that you were chronically mentally ill over on tBP?  Or am I confusing you with someone by a similar name?  It's difficult to tell with the hobbled search function over there.

!i!

You're confusing me with someone else. I didn't "intimate" anything about "being mentally ill". I did however, mention quite clearly several times that I periodically take anti-depressants to deal with a chronic sleeping disorder caused by serotonin deficiency, hardly a "mental illness". How this is relevant to anything, other than as a petty attempt to smear me?

My (possible) mistake.  As to the relevance of the comment, it goes toward accounting for your abrasive and erratic posting behavior.  Which I believe is what you were attempting in dragging your history with Werekoala into the argument.

!i!

:rolleyes: