Quote from: walkerp;222541Hello, Israel, are you listening?

Yes, if only Israel can convince Iran to move all of it's nuclear material and processing infrastructure onto a bunch of unmarked helicopters, they'll be all set.

I was talking about the policy of blowing up the houses of the families of suicide bombers (and suicide tractor drivers).  And I meant it more in the general sense, that perhaps trying a method other than attacking might be an effective strategy from time to time.

Quote from: walkerp;222541Good point, Koltar.  Accept the PCs would, after dropping off the hostages in a safe zone, come back and nuke the guerillas from space......

Only if it was a TRAVELLER Scenario ('Big Grin')

Truthfully, I've had the good fortune over the years to have groups of players who do try to come up with intelligent and creative plans. I know this isn't true for a lot of other GMs and groups.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;222609Truthfully, I've had the good fortune over the years to have groups of players who do try to come up with intelligent and creative plans. I know this isn't true for a lot of other GMs and groups.

Part of what you need for this sort of thing is a GM who resists the impulse to throw a wrench into a creative and well-executed plan to keep it from working based on the idea that a plan that goes off without a hitch is too easy and not any fun.

Quote from: John Morrow;222612Part of what you need for this sort of thing is a GM who resists the impulse to throw a wrench into a creative and well-executed plan to keep it from working based on the idea that a plan that goes off without a hitch is too easy and not any fun.

Hmm, very interesting point.  The concern that a plan that goes off well is no fun was one of the thoughts that popped into my head when I first read Koltar's post.  Is it implied in your post that a carefully organized and well-executed mission that terminates successfuly without any complications can be fun to roleplay?  All the dogma goes against that, but I'm not sure if it is always true.

Quote from: walkerp;222626Hmm, very interesting point.  The concern that a plan that goes off well is no fun was one of the thoughts that popped into my head when I first read Koltar's post.  Is it implied in your post that a carefully organized and well-executed mission that terminates successfuly without any complications can be fun to roleplay?  All the dogma goes against that, but I'm not sure if it is always true.

I have played in several games where comprehensive and well-executed plans have gone off exactly as planned and everyone in my group thought they were great fun.  We've also had some clever extemporaneous thinking and chutzpah pay off as planned and that can be fun, too.  In fact, there was a scene in my D&D game where the players, through the use of a divination, managed to set up an ambush for a party of bad guys so effective that the whole enemy party was wiped out in less than two rounds, doing almost no damage to the party.  It was like shooting fish in a barrel and they enjoyed that, too.

And it's the dogma against plans going off without a hitch that's one of the reasons why I just want the GM to let things play out without trying to engineer the fun.

If the rolls behind my screen Favor the players - I'm pretty okay with that.

Also, if I think they DO have a brilliant plan - I don't outright  just tell them that. (No fun in that)
 They actually have to roleplay it out and do it.  LOTS of moments of tension where they think its going to go 'south' (or go badly) ...but it doesn't.

Even when my NPCs/Villains ARE competent to brilliant as well.

 Their FUN happens when they get to the "HOly Shit! , We really pulled that off!!  I didn't think we were gonna make it moment!".  

Sorry for the digression - but it does connect with the real life news story and RPGs in general.


- Ed C.

A smooth plan works fine, because you can inject tension as koltar points out- or you have it run fast, and get on to the inevitable backlash.

Quote from: Koltar;222656Also, if I think they DO have a brilliant plan - I don't outright  just tell them that. (No fun in that)
 They actually have to roleplay it out and do it.  LOTS of moments of tension where they think its going to go 'south' (or go badly) ...but it doesn't.

Oh, I agree they have to play it out and things could go wrong while playing them out, but we've played through situations that could be described as turkey shoots where the bad guys just stand no chance and those have been interesting and fun, too.  In other words, it's been my experience that you don't really need the "I didn't think we were gonna make it!" to get the "We really pulled that off!" pay off.  Have you tried just letting a turkey shoot be a turkey shoot?