Quote from: Justin Alexander;875116The only way they could have made the heroic calling more explicit is if they had Maz actually say, "This is your heroic calling."

I had this exact thought when I watched the movie.

Quote from: Bren;874835Our Star Wars campaign had/has holoshows which we envisioned as being a lot like TV shows. Sometimes like TV shows of the 1950s or early 1960s.

Never seen any Abrahms TV. What's the selling point for Fringe? What did you like about it? Why should one watch it?

It's hard to tell the selling points without spoilers, but the big one is it's a fully coherent story. It's along the X-Files...except it all makes sense in the end (most impressive considering the time travel elements...yes, you can eventually pick it apart, but it's not nearly so hideous as the SW movie), and you get actual answers. That's pretty huge for this genre, and I strongly recommend it for that alone.

Quote from: Old One Eye;875114...
TFA is not a stand alone movie, but rather, is the seventh in what is probably the most widely known fantasy mileui in existence.  Everyone in the audience should know who Luke is, know what jedi are, know that Luke is the last jedi, and know that Star Wars universe is set up to require jedi or everything goes to shit.  Luke missing is a very big deal.  There are no jedi to maintain peace and order.

While the opening cawl does not make it clear, the film makes it obvious that the First Order is what happens with Hitler Youth Camp left to its own to fester for 30 years.  Logically it would be in some bum fuck part of the galaxy nobody cares about.  The crawl lets us know they are growing in power, and so, probably control a decent little chunk of the galaxy.  They are evil space nazis, so local systems would presumably not like being swallowed by the growing First Order, hence the Resistance.  Or if you prefer modern references:  First Order = ISIS, Republic = USA, Resistance = Syrian rebels.

I get that Luke is the legendary last Jedi, and that it's important whether Jedi and/or dark side people are around. Comparing the two crawls though, one is about a galactic-scale civil war, and the Death Star about to shut it down unless the plans can somehow be used to stop it - the other is about two rival factions looking for someone who went into hiding.

The name Resistance would make more sense to me (and match the WW2 reference) if it were a group of resistance fighters inside the space being taken over by the First Order, but the movie seems to lack enough sense of scale or location or of the galactic situation to make a difference. The impression I got was the Resistance is just the people who still hang out with Leia and who fight people who dress like the Empire.

The name First Order I can't take seriously, but also seems nonsensical without anyone ever talking about in what sense it is either an Order, or in what sense it is First. Are there other Orders? And what is it? Just a group like the Hitler Youth? Is there an associated government, industry or population base? Do they just have one base, one star destroyer, and a bunch of TIE fighters and brainwashed orphans?

Mostly rhetorical questions. I'm slightly curious, but mainly I'm relating my impression on having seen the film (once), and that it leaves all these things vague or unexplained and seeming to make little sense.

It seems to me there's a huge shift in how the plot logic works, comparing ANH to TFA: In ANH, the heroes are struggling against massive daunting physical obstacles to destroy the Death Star before it's power and terror effect shuts down the resistance to the Empire, in situations that seem to make basic sense. In TFA, the film half-borrows the plot with the wanted droid and Starkiller Base, but it doesn't borrow the plot logic, and the plot doesn't seem to make sense in the same way - instead of "ok, I get the situation" I was thinking "why is this happening this way?" in most scenes.

QuoteWe don't know how Max von Sydow has Luke's map or how Po knows to meet with him.  Presumably the same way Po knows is the exact same reason Kylo Ren knew von Sydow has the map.  It was probably a race to get there first, which is why Leia would send her best pilot.  He was not quick enough.

Kylo Ren has the scavenger village slaughtered because he is a space nazi.  And he almost certainly knew Sydow was on the Resistance side, and the villagers were probably not mere villagers but were Sydow's henchmen.  Since Po is the best pilot in the Resistance, Kylo probably knew who he was and wanted to capture him for some intel

Likely. I suppose the distinction I've been trying to communicate is that I prefer a story to make some effort to explain why things are happening, and for them to often seem appropriate, rather than just have things happen and leave us to figure them out if we even care. I get that many others didn't get rubbed the way I did.

So if I were going to edit those parts for continuity without changing what mainly happened, my changes would be something like:
* von Sydow makes it clear he is giving data which Poe puts in BB8 (maybe I forgot seeing that)
* von Sydow's location has some clear reason for existence that has something to do with why he's there, how it's findable, and how Kylo Ren will treat the people there - like they're a Light Side monastery, so it's a landmark, and Kylo might be hostile to the people there. (As it was, it seemed to be a no-reason-to-exist 50-person camp in the middle of the sand, with ultra-generic innocent NPC level-zero villagers.)
* There should be some indication of why/how Kylo shows up there and then too, and what the heck he is doing there and why he acts the way he does. Why kill this one settlement on a planet? If he's following the same clue looking for Luke, why doesn't he interrogate everyone and take and analyze all computer/data found there? Why don't they notice there's an X-Wing parked right there until they land troops and then shoot it with hand weapons? So I'd have some indication they do see the X-Wing, have something ready to blast it if it takes off, land troops nearby and get them to the X-Wing before the alarm is raised, then march in (not guns blazing) and capture and interrogate everyone and take every electronic device. BB8 escapes by doing something clever, like hiding in sand, mud, a latrine, or inside an animal or something.

QuoteI assumed the TIEs shooting at Rey and Finn had picked up BB8's signature and are precise enough shots to avoid blasting it to smithereens.  Not to mention they will want to blow up any spaceship so BB8 stays grounded.

But you're having to invent that, and if they can track BB8 (how, especially if they never had found him?) then why can't they find him on the next planet they're supposed to be trying to find him but instead blow up everything and leave before getting him?

QuoteThere was a scene in the movie where they came up with a plan to attack the base.  Han and Chewie are pulp hero legends (Star Wars universe runs on pulp, as established over the prior movies), and Finn is probably the most trained ground soldier in the Resistance (the Resistance did not send Rey, she was captured).

Oh right, Rey was captured. So they sent three guys... even more silly. "We're pulp hero legends, done this before, don't need much plan yuk yuk" doesn't seem like much of a plan to me.

Finn, the janitor ex-stormtrooper who turned traitor on his first "kill the unarmed villagers" mission, is the Resistance's most trained ground soldier? Sounds like it's even less significant whether the Resistance base gets blown up or not. Ok, maybe sending three people, none of whom are really in the Resistance, with no real plan, is perfect. ;-o

Even I can see slightly more reason than that. In theory, Finn was their guy who knew something about the preposterous layout of the childishly-named Starkiller Base. At least it makes a hint of sense to bring him. Imagine it's a game, and you can either send three guys, or three guys and a bunch of commandos: what would you choose?

QuoteThe attack on Starkiller was hastily put together, so it only included the assets available to the Resistance right then.  All they had on hand attacked; they did not have a big fleet.  The First Order appeared to be skimpy on military assets as well.  We are on the fringes of the galaxy, not the big galactic centers.

If all they have is 12 fighters, why don't they just leave rather than staying to get blown up? And why would the First Order bother to destroy the whole planet they're on? Why not just send the Star Destroyer we know they have? And if they have 12 fighters, how do they survive the 45 minutes or so it takes the 3-4 guys they send to hike back and forth through the woods, infiltrate the complex, set demo charges, converse with and fight Kylo ren, etc., when having to combat an entire planet full of TIE fighters? They even show them getting blown up fairly frequently, but only when on-screen. Apparently they all take a break when not on camera. Or they really had more like 200 X-Wings, and took massive casualties but they aren't shown because Disney or only-heroes-must-be-important, or just general dislike of having things make sense or be in accurate proportions.

QuoteThere is no reason to believe any location in the movie is a secret.  The First Order probably knows the Resistance base's location and vice versa.  I cannot recall anyone saying either of the places were hidden.  The movie is where the war starts, nobody was actively at war prior to the movie.

I can think of several reasons:
* If Kylo knew there was a Resistance base with only 12 X-Wings, he should have sent his Star Destroyer there immediately to go blow them the heck up.
* If the Resistance knew there was a planet carved impossibly into a Death Star, they would/should have been extremely interested in dealing with it (see previous Star Wars films), and the New Republic would (if they had any IQ points) also be interested, not have their fleet parked on the current capital planet, etc etc.
* von Sydow seemed to be huddled in a hut in a 50-man generic camp on Dakku, which looks like nowhere to me in a whole galaxy full of inhabited planets, so pretty much no one should know where he is, let alone that he might know where Luke is, and without some specific event, it seems improbable that Kylo would know and arrive at exactly the same time, and that Po would have no clue, and that if all of that were true, Kylo would just kill everyone rather than searching and questioning.
* Even if the Falcon can be tracked from anywhere once flying (groan), it still takes a fair amount of time to hyperjump around the galaxy (see Episode IV), so it makes little sense or is ridiculously close timing for them to jump to deep space, then have time for ½ a conversation before Han arrives, and then they have the same brief pause before two other groups also show up at the same place.
* Not to mention it seems like being able to track the Falcon immediately anywhere is incompatible with a galaxy where moving data around needs to be done by dragging a droid around.
* If Han is supposed to still be a clever experienced person, and Leia a general, they sure do a poor job of avoiding what should be obviously vulnerable situations, Han getting his friend's bar destroyed and himself cut off from his ship, and Leia having a static "base" that the enemy knows where it is, yet it is vital it not get attacked. If this isn't a TV Trope, it ought to be: "New director/writer doesn't really like previous director's heroes, so he has previously-super-competent characters be super-incompetent, so he can kill them off and/or make them need the new heroes."

QuoteThe Resistance base is in the First Order's back yard actively causing them problems, and it has Leia who is also a galactic hero of the type who can galvanize the Republic to action now that she has proof of the First Order's  intentions.  Get rid of Leia and there is nobody to have the galactic-wide gravitas she can command.

If Leia's so great, why does she have a known static base that she and her people can't escape and that has only 12 X-Wings? If no location is secret, why doesn't she just show the Republic a Polaroid of Starkiller base as proof? Why not a long time ago, maybe sometime during the digging of the impossibly-large equatrial trench that is just there to make it obviously a Death Star? Why wasn't it mentioned in the crawl if known?

QuoteBy the by, her ugly box ship looked to be a converted B Wing - very much like there had been a galactic war with lots of military ships to be converted for civilian uses.

That's actually interesting to me. I wish they'd shown it long enough for me to see that. I just got the impression it looked like a mobile-home-shaped rectangle of nothing to me.

Quote from: Skarg;875609The name Resistance would make more sense to me (and match the WW2 reference) if it were a group of resistance fighters inside the space being taken over by the First Order...

That's exactly it.

(Not denying the film desperately needed to spend more time clearly establishing the politics and the stakes involved, but the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance is spelled out in the movie.)

These deleted scenes are pretty interesting: http://starwarsreporter.com/2016/01/27/the-force-awakens-10-deleted-scenes-we-never-got-to-see/

So.... they cut out some stuff that would have contributed to the story to keep the pacing up. Got it.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;875682These deleted scenes are pretty interesting: http://starwarsreporter.com/2016/01/27/the-force-awakens-10-deleted-scenes-we-never-got-to-see/

Thanks!

Quote from: Werekoala;875701So.... they cut out some stuff that would have contributed to the story to keep the pacing up. Got it.

There are always trade offs like that when they edit movies. Pacing was obviously something that was important (and I think you find many similar things in the original trilogy, where they probably could have slowed down to explain some things, but didn't in order to keep things moving). A lot of the stuff is still hinted at (like Maz). The whole thing explaining what the resistance is, I personally didn't find that particularly confusing (just like I didn't need them to explain to me how the Empire emerged from the Republic in the originals)..

A crazy waste of time I know but its been bothering me more and more ...

A plot out line for the Force Awakens that isn't more full of plot holes than a swiss cheese and whilst it might bend, doesn't entirely ignore the in universe laws of physics.

Opening Crawl ...

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away ...
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
A New Republic has emerged following a bloody war after the death of the Emperor. The Republic struggles with its new responsibilities and the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire following the disappearance of Luke Skywalker and the destruction of his new Jedi academy.
In the part of the Galaxy where The First Order has taken control former senator Leia leads a Resistance with secret support from the Republic.
Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts....



Scene 1 - Desert Planet Jakku

An X-wing flies over a world dotted with wrecks of Empire and Rebellion ships. It lands in a makeshift pad out in the desert. A pilot (Poe) and his droid companion (BB8) disembark. They are met by a small entourage led by a female Twilek – blue with two tentacles on their head (note not an Obi Wan look alike). The two share a wary conversation but eventually the pilot reveals he is here to collect a map fragment and proves his credentials with a token from Senator Leia. The woman demonstrates the veracity of the map by displaying it through the droid BB8's hologram unit. She stresses that this is highly valuable and was trusted to her.
At this point a squadron of ships arrive, the New Order. Stormtroopers led by Vader look alike Kylo Ren zap everyone. The female tells Poe to leave, the map is still in the droid. The Female pulls a lightsabre and goes to engage Kylo Ren. The two fight whilst the fight kicks off and we highlight one particular StormTrooper who seems reluctant at the slaughter. In the lightsabre conflict we hint at some backstory. The Female is obviously less experienced and weaker. Kylo reveals she never completed her training and kills her but destroys her lightsabre in the process. After she dies he finds the token from Leia and crushes it.
Poe is pinned down by a group of Stormtroopers led by a Chrome clad officer. Everyone with him is killed but he manages to send BB8 away with the map data still in it. Phasma manages to take down Poe, which some cool combat weapon.
Dragging Poe away she orders the remaining people slaughtered and our reluctant Stormtrooper finding himself surrounded by the victims has an awakening, an 'are we the baddies' moment (as opposed to seeing his mate killed and then realising his own mortality).
The Stormtroopers leave.

Scene2

A young woman, Rey scavenges wreckage from a fallen Star Cruiser. She demonstrates technical skill, resourcefulness and bravery.
She piles up the collection of junk and transfers it to her speeder bike and drives into the nearest town.
There she heads into a beat up compound where an alien dude, Unkar Plutt, offers her a ¼ ration for the junk she has collected etc.
In the following banter the junk dealer explains that he is a collector and will pay for rare items. He states he already holds the Millennium Falcon. Rey dismisses the claim as ridiculous and states that that is just an old junk Corellian YT-1300 Freighter and everyone that has one claims theirs is the Millennium Falcon.
She heads back to her 'camp' in an old wreck and eats. She rescues BB-8 from a Teedo scavenger. She can understand his beeps and whistles, and offers him shelter for the night.

Scene 3  - First Order Star Destroyer

On the First Order destroyer, Poe is unsuccessfully interrogated by the First Order. Kylo Ren is called in to use his Force powers to extract information from Poe about the whereabouts of the map. Poe resists, but ultimately divulges that the map is still on Jakku in his BB-8 unit.

Meanwhile Captain Phasma confronts FN-2187 about his behavior on Jakku. She orders him to take his unused blaster in for inspection and report to her division and ultimately reconditioning. Instead FN-2187 decides to run away. He needs a pilot to escape the star destroyer, so he rescues Poe, and the two board a black First Order TIE fighter and escape. Poe renames FN-2187 as Finn, and explains that he needs to return to Jakku to retrieve his droid as it contains data essential to the fight against the First Order and expertly pilots to an escape while Finn fires the ship's blasters. The fighter is hit by lasers from the destroyer and crash lands on Jakku. Finn ejects with Poe's jacket but the Tie Fighter screams off into the distance before crashing.


Scene 4 - Jakku

Finn wanders across the desert discarding his stormtrooper armor. Eventually, he arrives in Niima Outpost, the town where Rey trades scrap for food. While Finn is looking for water in the town, he sees Rey being accosted by two of Unkar Plutt's henchmen who are trying to make off with BB-8. He begins to rush to her aid, but before he gets far, Rey handily fights off her attackers using her staff. Clearly, she can handle herself. BB-8 spots Finn looking their way, and tells Rey that he is wearing Poe's jacket which they assume is stolen. Rey chases Finn down, knocks him to the ground and confronts Finn about the jacket. Finn tells them that Poe was captured by the First Order and that he helped him escape, but Poe was unfortunately killed. BB-8 is saddened and rolls off , but Rey assumes Finn is a resistance fighter. Finn lies, telling her he is indeed with the resistance. Rey excitedly tells Finn that BB-8 is on a secret mission. Finn tells her BB-8 is carrying data essential to the Resistance.
BB-8 returns and alerts Finn and Rey that they are in trouble. First Order stormtroopers are now looking for Finn and the BB-8 droid. Stormtroopers chase Finn, Rey and BB-8 through Niima Outpost and TIE fighters are called in and begin to bomb and strafe the space port destroying all viable ships. To make their escape, they break into Unkar Plutt's compound and steal the ship he claims was the Falcon to escape the First Order. Rey takes the pilot's seat while Finn mans the guns. Neither is confident in their abilities, and their lift off is rough, destroying a substantial portion of the town as they try to get off of the ground.. Rey flies through the wrecked ships in the desert of Jakku, occasionally scraping through the sands as they try to keep low to confuse the TIE fighter's tracking. Rey takes the Falcon into one of the Star Destroyers and just as the pursuing fighter locks onto their ship, she turns the Falcon out into the open, and performs a flip which allows Finn to fire successfully at the remaining fighter, taking it down. They head off, away from Jakku, and on toward the wider galaxy. Not having flown in years, the Falcon is not in good repair, and almost immediately requires an emergency patch. Rey begins repairing the ship while Finn admits to BB-8 he is not part of the resistance, but is still able to convince BB-8 to tell them where the Resistance base is.
When Rey eventually gets the Hyperdrive on line a Trojan program kicks in and whisks the ship out to an empty spot near a space station. The Hyperdrive then powers down.

Scene 5 – Maz's Cantina

Rey and Finn have no option but to dock at the space station. They arrive in a crowded cantina and end up nearly getting into fight when they are trying to trade for spares. Finn says they should dump the ship but Rey says it should be repairable and jokes that after all it is the Millennium Falcon not just any old ship.  They are saved from the fight by the Space Station's owner a diminutive female alien called Maz. Maz takes then into a back room and there is Han Solo and Chewie looking to get their ship back. Turns out eh Trojan was an old program Han had installed just before his ship was stolen and it triggers a homing beacon. He wants his ship back.
However, it appears Solo owes a couple of galaxy wide syndicates money and his presence on the station has been spotted. There is a fight in which Chewie demonstrates he is actually tough and Solo shoots a bounty hunter before he can shoot him. He is taken to task by Maz but assure her, 'Look you know me I never shoot first'.
They go to take a look at the Falcon and Solo is impressed with Rey's skills, whilst Fin bandages up chewie who was injured in the scrap. Finn reveals that the droid BB8 has information that is essential to the Resistance. However the alerts go off as their location has been uncovered by the First Order. The First order easily disable the Stations defences and board. Battle ensues.
In the fight Solo and Chewie get to demonstrate they still have the moves, Finn gets to fight his old pals but Rey gets separated and ends up down in the bowls of the station fleeing Stormtroopers and Captain Phasma. She ends up in a vault where she finds Luke's old lightsabre. When she touches the lightsaber she experiences a frightening vision. The dream has the voices of old Jedi like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. It flashes by quickly. She sees the hallways of Cloud City, a vision of Skywalker and R2-D2, a vision of Kylo Ren surrounded by bodies, thrusting his saber through the chest of a mysterious figure, a vision of herself being abandoned as a child on Jakku and finally she sees Ren pursing her in a snowy forest.

Rey is frightened by her vision and refuses Luke's lightsaber, running out of the vault and into the arms of Phasma. She is dragged into the main area with a bunch of other prisoners who are ordered killed but Ren arrives and seeing Rey gets 'force' feeling and says to Phasma, not this one and takes her prisoner back to his ship which departs.
The Resistance led by Leia now arrive and eliminate/drive off the rest of the Stormtroopers and rescue Solo, Chewie and Finn.  Maz explains that Rey has been captured before giving Lukes lightsaber to Finn and telling him he has to deliver it to Rey because it is calling to her. Han and Leia are reunited, but their relations are tense. It is revealed that Kylo Ren is actually their son. The heroes return to the Resistance Base, where Finn is reunited with Poe Dameron, who was not killed by the crash on Jakku. BB-8 is reunited with R2-D2 and C-3P0, but R2-D2 has been in shut down since Luke left many years before.

Scene 6 – First Order Base – not a starkiller in sight......

Rey wakes to find her self locked in an interrogation chair like the one we have seen earlier in Poe's interrogation scene. Kylo Ren and she converse, and he removes his mask, revealing his face to her; he is a young man. Ren uses the Force to read Rey's mind. He senses her lonely life on Jakku, her dreams of a far away island and the closeness she feels towards Han Solo. She reacts with hostility but seems unable to keep him from reading her thoughts.

When he tries to extract the information about the map from her mind, however, he runs up against an unexpected barrier. Rey is not only able to resist his further probing, but pushes back into Ren's mind, and tells him that he is afraid that he will never be as strong as Darth Vader. Ren is shaken by this and by her obvious strength with the Force, and he runs away to meet with Snoke in search of guidance on how to proceed.

Kylo Ren and General Hux are scolded for not retrieving the droid, and Ren's inability to crack Rey's mind, by the Supreme Leader, who is only revealed as a massive hologram of an old and scarred man seated on a throne towering over them.

Scene 7 - Resistance Base

The Rebel leaders are examining the map hologram from BB8. Its just a fraction of what they need to find Luke. Leia explains he had gone looking for the orginal Jedi Temple after his academy and padawns were destroyed by his star pupil her son Ben.
Leia and Han have a side conversation about their son they return to the main chamber to find Finn pushing to go to the First Order base to rescue Rey. The resistance generals refuse saying it's too big a risk to save just one girl. Maz speaks up saying that the girls has affinity to the Force and will be essential if they hope to fine Luke Skywalker.
Finn then speaks out to say that the First Order have been working on a new weapon a missile that can travel through Hyperspace and evade planetary shielding. They call it the StarKiller.
Han agrees to take Finn and rescue Rey. The Resistance will not risk their forces and Leia refuses to back an all out attack but as an aside tells Han to bring back their son.

Scene 8 – First Order Base

We get a shot of the Starkiller missiles. They are each the size of a Star Destroyer and extend up from the base like tower blocks.
Han and Chewie come out of hyperspace on the planet in order to evade the shields, and crash land in the snowy forest. Finn reveals he does not know how to disable the shields; he only came back to rescue Rey. They capture Captain Phasma after an epic fight with Chewie.

Meanwhile Rey hears a voice in her head, we recognize it as Luke's he tells her to use the Force and probe the mind of her guards, she uses the mind-trick power to escape from the stormtroopers guarding her cell. She sneaks through the Base to the hanger to escape.
After disabling Phasma Finn, Han and Chewbacca head off to find Rey, whilst BB8 hacks the bases computer system, but they quickly discover that she has freed herself when they spot her scaling a wall of the base. They rush to meet her. She is surprised that they would come back for her, and embraces Finn when she learns from Chewbacca that it was Finn's idea that they come to the base to save her.
From BB8 the group learn that the StarKIller missiles are complete and directed at a number of capital planets of the Republic.
After raiding an arms depot for explosives they decide to destroy the missiles on the ground aware that this might destroy the planet and them with it.
Han tells BB8 to send one last message to Leia and the group sneak off to plant explosives.
Han and Chewbacca improvise a plan to plant explosives to blow up the rockets. They split up to lay explosives in separate locations. Kylo Ren finds that Rey has escaped and has a paddy. He searches the base for Rey. He stalks off onto a catwalk where Han spots him. Han approaches him on the catwalk, calling him Ben. He asks his son to return with him, and Ren offers his lightsaber, but then activates it and kills his father, pushing him off into the pit. Chewbacca, having watched the entire conversation, fires on Ren, hitting him in the side.
Poe and a squad of X-Wing fighters arrive having left against resistance orders but with Leia's blessing. BB8 manages to lower the shields in time and the ships attack the rockets. However 3 of them are launched and slip into Hyperspace destroying their targets.
The X wings bomb the base destroying its fighter capability and wrecking it. The base is in ruins the remaining Stromtroopers pun out into the snow and encounter the Resistance landing party.

Kylo Ren confronts Finn and Rey in the snowy forest. Ren is bleeding from his wound, but ignites his red fiery saber to fight. Rey raises her blaster to fire on Ren, but he throws her against a tree with a Force push and she lies unconscious in the snow. Finn rushes to her aid and then uses the blue lightsaber to fight Ren. Finn quickly finds himself outmatched. He manages to touch Ren with the saber, but this only enrages him.

Rey is revived by the sound of Finn's screams as he is burned by Ren's saber. Ren easily disarms Finn, who drops the saber into the snow. Ren tries to use the Force to pull the lightsaber to himself. It hurtles towards him but then flies past. Ren turns to discover the saber in Rey's hands. They begin to fight. Rey initially fights unsuccessfully and desperately, and begins to run from Ren. He pursues her and pins her against the edge of a cliff. Ren offers to teach her the Force, but this only ends up reminding her to tap into its power, and she hears that voice again. She closes her eyes for a moment of meditation and then attacks Ren with a new vigor and power. She rapidly gains the upper hand, extinguishes Ren's saber and cuts him on the arm and across the face.

As Ren lays on the floor looking up at the girl that beat him he is ready for the coup d'etat but Rey just turns and leaves him lying beaten in the snow and helps Finn. Chewbacca arrives in the Millennium Falcon to pick up both Finn and Rey. The Falcon and X-Wings escape having dealt a heavy blow to the First Order. Back at the Resistance base, Leia and Rey embrace in sadness, around them Resistance leaders are in mourning haviing seen the destruction of the Republic homeworlds.

R2-D2 awakens and reveals the missing part of the map to Lukes location. Finn is still unconscious, and Rey tells him goodbye while he rests. Rey and Chewbacca leave in the Falcon, Rey taking the pilot's seat. They fly to the planet indicated by the map, where Rey carefully climbs a rocky island. When she reaches the top, she finds an old cloaked and bearded Jedi with a metal hand. It is Luke Skywalker. Rey wordlessly offers him the lightsaber.

The Plunkitt review of Ep VII is on YouTube. I think it may be longer than the film itself.

The first HOUR is actually not about Ep VII, but is about Internet commenters, the annoying Circle Theory posted by some fan, and about Lucas selling to Disney and about the wave of pro-Prequel puff on the Internet that mysteriously and stupidly appeared after the sale to Disney. Though mostly irrelevant to Ep VII, I agreed with most of it and there were some sound bite conclusions that perfectly matched my attitude to the prequels, the stupid fan theories of Lucas grand plan genius, and the beneath-contempt "the prequels are as good as the OT" idiocy. There's one sound bite that also applies to my feelings about most crappy sci fi films and some games and books, which I'll have to go back and find so I can quote and link to it instead of descending into explaining to people why I'm annoyed by stupid lazy forced formulaic storytelling in films and games.

When he actually gets to the Ep VII review, he repeats the obligatory observation that it's an ANH clone, thankfully pretty quickly, and then makes various points, some of which match my own (The "Resistance", the WTF seeing Starkiller Base blow up planets from other star systems), though he doesn't match my particular outrages exactly, but close enough. There's a bit ranting about the "diversity" casting, and a couple bits I don't really agree with (e.g. he says he wanted some romance... wat?). I like that he called out the baton vs saber fight as annoying/silly.

And of course there was a disturbing amount of random misogyny and "I'm a serial killer" jokes and it concludes with an attempt to completely gross out everyone with literal projectile diarrhea combat followed by an offer of food. . . . at least that "achieves" a level of disrespect for crappy film-making that resembles my level of disappointment. ;-)

There was a lot of meat on the Plinkett prequel videos. Lucas may be a hack, but he's a sincere hack.

Ep VII... it's been beaten to death at this point. It's a corporate clone of the original trilogy. Nothing unusual or interesting to comment on.

Except that it made a fucking boatload of money for Disney.

Quote from: jeff37923;923777Except that it made a fucking boatload of money for Disney.

Think of how much more money it could have made if it was good.

Quote from: jeff37923;923777Except that it made a fucking boatload of money for Disney.

All the big, splashy movies make big money. That's nothing out of the ordinary.

Quote from: CRKrueger;923821Think of how much more money it could have made if it was good.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;923858All the big, splashy movies make big money. That's nothing out of the ordinary.

I don't know about all that. If you clicked on the link, you would see that over 2 billion dollars worldwide is a pretty huge number.

Besides, my inner 8 year old loved it.