There was once a wild and woolly time on RPG.net, a time before people could be banned for not using right-think. And there was this fellow who went by the handle "KC", a seemingly smart fellow, Canadian, well-worded posts, had a proclivity for rather grim applications of Phoenix Command. He also had a proclivity for slipping odd and occasionally incongruous observations about the incompatibility of various peoples. Oh, he wouldn't come right out and say it, but he increasingly made erudite observations on the innate differences among the races and how they weren't meant to co-mingle -- not that he was a racist, mind you.
He was eventually pushed to the point where he broke down and just admitted everything, including his grand ephiphany that the races were simply meant to remain separate, where he woke up to the truth and embraced his White heritage. Quoted "The Matrix" and everything.
This was also the situation where Darren MacLennan pretty much extablished his reputation as RPG.net's pitbull. I don't recall if he was a "mod" as such back then, but he went after KC doggedly (no pun intended), constantly working on him to get him to admit that he was a racist. It was high drama, and a weird lesson in how very smart, very reasonable-sounding people can be the vehicles for some ugly and dangerous ideas.
Anyone know what happened to KC since then? I ask because I half expect him to be posting here under a different name (though I haven't seen any fans of Phoenix Command yet).
!i!
i remember KC very well. He wrote me some emails, which I think I have lost. I think he gave up on me in the end, after I wrote him a historical-materialist account of why the white peoples were seemingly ascendant.
Yes, I remember that. In those days I was all "I may abhor what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it." That experience was a step in the path for me to "You know what? You're on your own, you racist fucker."
Ned
Those two positions are not incompatible....
Quote from: droogThose two positions are not incompatible....
Indeed, 'You're free to say what you like, but I'm free to call you a wanker and point out you're full of shit too.'
I don't remember the exact details of KC's banning, but what you described is definitely what I perceive as being one of RPGnet's most common plays since modding was established.
Quote from: GabrielI don't remember the exact details of KC's banning, but what you described is definitely what I perceive as being one of RPGnet's most common plays since modding was established.
Well, don't jump to too hasty of a conclusion. Re-reading my post from last night, I failed to communicate much of the nuance of KC's posts. I recall him volunteering a lot of his poison, and for all the "sensibility" with which he portrayed the need for separation of the races, being a member of a racially-mixed family I found his position incorrect, wrong-headed, egregious, mealy-mouthed, and needlessly provocative. As I tried to indicate in my post above, over time he increasingly began to insert his opinions in his posts, both provoked and unprovoked.
In the defense of RPG.net's mod policies -- or at least Darren's approach at the time -- Darren wasn't too far off from the approach that Pundit takes around here. Someone starts posting carefully worded but seemingly specious opinions, and he steps in and says, "Okay, fucker. Out with it. What are you trying NOT to say?" Whether or not Darren has continued to use that as a means of provoking bannable responses from people is the subject for another thread. (
Please, if you feel it necessary to discuss, take it to one of the other, existing RPG.net threads -- I really intend to discuss KC here, and possibly the changes his sort of behavior can wreak on a site like RPG.net and theRPGsite.)
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAnyone know what happened to KC since then?
I do, though it's not my place to give out his new handle. He revealed it to me via private email about a year back after I queried him about some RPG rules posted elsewhere (after a few emails, I realized who he was and he confirmed). I believe that he still frequents RPGnet.
[Edit: Scratch that. I only find his new handle at RPGnet when I Google.]
No problem. I'm not interested in opening up dialog with the fellow again, but I am interested in what came of him. I figured he'd be slipping back into TBP again sooner or later, just as a number of people were surmising a few years back. I also have to wonder if he's here or not.
Like I stated above, smart guy, well-worded, interesting insights on gaming, fucked-up and personally-offensive worldview.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaNo problem. I'm not interested in opening up dialog with the fellow again, but I am interested in what came of him.
Actually, he'd been pretty productive since returing to TBP -- I would never have known it was him if I hadn't run across those rules elsewhere.
QuoteI also have to wonder if he's here or not.
I don't think so.
QuoteLike I stated above, smart guy, well-worded, interesting insights on gaming, fucked-up and personally-offensive worldview.
He's since learned to seperate the two, so far as I could tell.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI really intend to discuss KC here, and possibly the changes his sort of behavior can wreak on a site like RPG.net and theRPGsite.)
If you ask me, KC was an excellent example of how a site can work without mods. He got so much flak from other posters that he broke down on his own.
Hmmm, now I want to do some detective work.
Quote from: droogIf you ask me, KC was an excellent example of how a site can work without mods. He got so much flak from other posters that he broke down on his own.
Yeah, but it was also typical of the "dogpile" by which TBP has come to be known -- by personal experience for many here. On one hand, at least it's the populace itself setting the tone for the discourse. On the other hand, it's the equivalent of a public lynching -- some people take to doing it for sport or entertainment.
Quote from: jdrakehActually, he'd been pretty productive since returing to TBP -- I would never have known it was him if I hadn't run across those rules elsewhere.
[...snip...]
He's since learned to seperate the two, so far as I could tell.
Hm. That's good and bad, I suppose.
!i!
Mulling this over last night, I remembered that he always came across as a little deranged to me. I felt a bit sorry for him - for a while.
Edit:
Quote from: Ian absentiaOn the other hand, it's the equivalent of a public lynching -- some people take to doing it for sport or entertainment.
I would add "or for a desperate need to belong." This is possibly the biggest thing that drove me away from TPB. I hate group think, even when I agree with it - it just rubs me up the wrong way.
Ned
Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyMulling this over last night, I remembered that he always came across as a little deranged to me. I felt a bit sorry for him - for a while.
I tried. When he emailed me he said that I didn't seem to be driven by hate, so I thought I'd better live up to it. I just kept on writing him reasoned replies until he gave up and ran away.
I've known guys like him in real life. I knew a bloke who had been one of the best-known skinheads in Perth. He'd talk about how people didn't know a lot of things about history, and I could only agree. He was always good to me and the Chinese girl I was with at the time (she thought he had pretty eyes). He picked a fight with a white bloke at a party, saying he was a two-faced cunt (and he was right). He got thrown out of the party by one of my friends for his trouble, and I had to stop one of my other friends from booting him while he was on the ground. Mobs shit me.
He was a lonely guy, and he was complex. He just wasn't going to knuckle under to what he was supposed to think, no matter where he found himself.
Yes, I've known many people like that in real life, too. Some might say (my wife, eg) that I've been altogether too indulgent of them but I have found that - on the whole - it's the misshapes that make interesting friends.
Ned
Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyI would add "or for a desperate need to belong." This is possibly the biggest thing that drove me away from TPB. I hate group think, even when I agree with it - it just rubs me up the wrong way.
Have you officially left TBP then?
I have a weird relationship with groupthink. On the one hand, I've been at the crest of mobs and groupthink on a couple of forums and felt the power that comes from essentially leading the charge on a particular point. I understand the attraction of it though I wouldn't seek it out again.
As for being on the receiving end of groupthink, in the real world I'm pretty amiable and stable but there's something in my psychological make-up that means that if I don't get a kicking from the group every now and again I get bored or unhappy. Regardless of the forum, I invariably wind up making some post that will instantly erase all the respect that I might have earned from months and months of sane normal posting. It might be over-stating something I believe, taking a swipe at someone I think is the beneficiary of groupthink popularity or, in particularly weird cases, defending a position I don't even agree with. On my regular forum about a year ago I got dog-piled on for defending Thatcher's treatment of the miners.
Now, while I don't have much love for unions I certainly don't think that the way to deal with them is through strike-breaking coppers and forcing people to the wall without a carefully set up safety net and re-training system in place beforehand... and yet I defended Thatcher to the hilt over a number of pages simply because the consensus was anti-Thatcher.
I enjoy being perverse and I enjoy being an outsider and sooner or later, if I feel accepted and appreciated a gasket will blow and I'll say something stupid that I don't really mean.
So yeah... groupthink not good :-)
I don't do anything officially. I'm totally unofficial.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalOn the one hand, I've been at the crest of mobs and groupthink on a couple of forums and felt the power that comes from essentially leading the charge on a particular point. I understand the attraction of it though I wouldn't seek it out again.
I too know that feeling. It makes me literally nauseous, like vertigo.
Ned
I didn't mean flaming out or going "Screw you guys!", I mean just not posting there any more.
Quote from: droogI tried. When he emailed me he said that I didn't seem to be driven by hate, so I thought I'd better live up to it. I just kept on writing him reasoned replies until he gave up and ran away.
You're a much better man than me, droog. Which is probably the reason why he tried to reach out. Me, I just ignore folks like this.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI didn't mean flaming out or going "Screw you guys!", I mean just not posting there any more.
I didn't post for a long time, but I have a new nick and post very occasionally. One person knows, another rumbled me.
I also wanted to address this:
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI enjoy being perverse and I enjoy being an outsider and sooner or later, if I feel accepted and appreciated a gasket will blow and I'll say something stupid that I don't really mean.
.. and say, the superior man doesn't care what others think of him. But I guess you know that and find it as hard to live by as I do.
Ned
Quote from: David RYou're a much better man than me, droog. Which is probably the reason why he tried to reach out. Me, I just ignore folks like this.
I used to collect freaks. I met this bloke at uni... COMPLETE weirdo.
He was this Cypriot millionaire who had basically spent the last 30 of his life picking up degree after degree after degree. He used to follow me around like a little dog and kept on wanting to buy me presents. Was very strange indeed. He used to wipe down chairs with ethanol and talked about machine-gunning turks. He even started spreading weird rumours about me that I was a part of this weird swinging group composed largely of senior EU officials. We'd meet bi-annually in a Frankfurt hotel. I actually had a couple of girls come up to me and ask me if they could join.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI used to collect freaks. I met this bloke at uni... COMPLETE weirdo.
Not exactly the same thing Mr.A, but thanks for sharing.
Regards,
David R