rpg.net forums down

[David R]

There.  I said it.

Honestly Ian, I think you and CD might be on to something. I heard this before, from long time lurkers turned recent posters. I just wanted to hear it from folks who have a posting history with the site.

Regards,
David R

[PhishStyx]

No. Deliberately obtuse. We're talking about you here.

No, we were talking about Darren MacLennan and his amazing grasp of English vocabulary. The man who brought us, "The Fuck?" As best I can tell, he epitomizes deliberately obtuse.

As to me, trust me when I tell you that I'm being the model of restraint here.

Deliberately obtuse, again. No, he didn't just ask a question. As anyone can clearly see, he was not asking in a way conducive to dialogue. He was rambling. He was rude. He was insulting.

He asked questions, he posted examples, he made a clear point.  At the end of his post, he gave a conclusionary opinion about the activity. Definitely not insulting, probably rude, but that's a judgement call and doesn't rise to the level of being threatened by an administrator.

He could have asked for more reasons politely, or expressed his disagreement, without insults and with a cool head.

Darren and the other revenge banning staff could have been polite, too. They could avoid being dismissive to other's opinions. They COULD actually do their jobs. But instead, they choose the route of revenge bannings.

I don't need "the win". The way you twist every word and ignore the facts, I think you need the win a lot more than anyone else.

Thanks for making up a bunch of "facts" to go along with your opinions. You win AGAIN. Congratulations, 1 MILLIONTH used.

[SgtSpaceWizard]

I have been looking for a place to get this off my chest, and it looks like I found it!

I joined this site mainly because of the shitty moderation on "big purple". Its nice to see some old posters from there posting here. Particularly on this subject. It would be impossible to have this discussion over there.

The mods at rpg.net just seem like a bunch of hypocrites everytime they ban someone and close a thread. You can make all the attacks or snarky comments you want as a mod. I appreciate that they are only human and everyone has a bad day, but then they like to whine about what a hard job they have moderating and no one appreciates it. If you try to bring it up in trouble tickets, they give you shit and you might as well consider yourself "on notice". Who moderates the moderators? Is there a grown up in charge? (I agree with the poster that said Curt needs to come down off the cross, you're here, you're queer, we're used to it...) The mods routinely speak to the board users in a condescending and often insulting tone, daring you to invoke the "modhammer". That passive aggressiveness has all the stink of the bullied finally getting to be the bully. They need some moderators with thicker skin, to say the least.

For the record, I'm not banned over there, I have never even been warned. I'm a pretty easy going guy. But so often I will be reading a thread and then "Jesus" comes in with the new-testament-red letters and warns someone over something petty because they have been looking for an excuse to ban someone over something they said in tangency or whatever. I'm closer to 40 than 30 now, so I really have little use for an internet forum where the boundries of discussion are drawn by adolescents with a grudge and a sense of persecution, although I do enjoy the creepy gamer thread...

Anyway, it's nice to be on the "Ship of the Banned" with yall!

[jdrakeh]

Not to take Cessna's defense, because I would most certainly like to game with James but online behavior does affect me. Heck, that's why I think I'd like to game with James in the first place!

Thanks! FWIW, I'm certain that I'd like to game with you, as well. That said. . .

My point wasn't that online behavior doesn't impact perceptions, but that sending out a PM (a message that nobody else can read and, thus, isn't effected by) that basically says "You could have had the privelage of gaming with a god like myself, but you screwed up!" is bizarre in that that aside from serving as a poorly executed attempt* to kick somebody while they're down, I don't see that it serves any purpose.

I was an administrator over on the RPGHost forums and I've never felt the need to engage in that kind of weirdness -- and, I call it "weirdness"  because I can't see how sending out PMs like that has anything to do with one's duties as an administrator or benefits the site in any way. It seems like extraordinarily petty behavior that somebody who is ostensibly meant to serve as an example of appropriate conduct shoud do their best to avoid.

Now, that said, I thik one could successfully argue that leading by example isn't happening too frequently at the Other Place -- but still, it could. And that, I think, is the real shame. By engaging in thread crapping, personal attacks, and the other behavior that they're supposed to be quelling, I think that the current mods and admins of RPGnet actively create most of their own woes by inviting the genral populace to follow suit.

[Hackmastergeneral]

I'm not the one either. You'd know that if you were grounded into reality.

So, what, I'm supposed to keep a documented curriculum vitae of your posting history?  Some guy I barely know, and could care less about?

You aren't one of the frothing, banned hordes on here bitching and moaning because they acted like a jackass and got called for it?  Fine.  

You still have your head up your ass.  But you don't like the place.  Cool.  I don't really care.  But it is totally possible to post there, and post about unpopular topics, and not get friggin banned over it.  You might not be popular, but not banned.

[James McMurray]

So what topics have gotten people banned from rpg.net in the past? I'm specifically looking for things that were not phrased as "this is my stance, and you're an idiot if you disagree."

[Kyle Aaron]

Polite, mature individuals will come to an understanding despite the limitations of the medium.

Sure. But in face-to-face life, impolite, immature people also come to understandings. It's because they have to, there's no Ignore List in real life. Being forced to get along with someone is not always a bad thing - it can, in fact, be a maturing experience in itself.

For example, on the Army Recruit Course if two blokes hated each-other, or if one was the useless one in the platoon and the other his worst critic, we'd put them together, and tell them if they didn't get along there'd be harsh punishment coming up. Certainly it was rare that they went on to become good buddies (whatever the movies tell you), but they did learn to get along and respect one another.

Now, Army Recruit Course has coercive power, and no-one in civilian life would get away with forcing two people who hated each-other to get along. Still, we can supply the force for ourselves. And it is, as I said, a maturing experience.

I think a lot of folks are likely very nice in persons and hide behind the written medium when they are online but I consider those folks fucking cowards. I think they reveal more about their true selves online than they do offline and I absolutely don't want anything to do with them.

That's one way to look at it - that people have an inner evil they conceal face-to-face but show online. The other way to look at it is that a person is like, say, a six-sided die - they can only show you at most one-half of their different faces at once. They can choose to show you all, or only show you a part of themselves. I think more often than not, online people only show you part of themselves.

You're seeing it as, they're revealing a hidden part; I see it as, often they're hiding most of themselves. So for example old Gareth-Michael Skarka, well-known for being an abrasive poster, loudly declaring that due to the latest argument he'd had he was "quitting the industry", calling people cunts and so on. Well, apparently this guy has got a wife and kid or two. So with at least a couple of people, he's pleasant and kind enough to have them spend their lives with him. So I don't think it's simply the case that GMS hides his nasty side with his wife and kids, and shows it online; it's more like he's hiding his nice side online, and shows it with his wife and kids. He's both nasty, and nice - two sides to him. But he conceals the nice side online.

Sure, we're not responsible for what people show us and won't show us. If I post like a cocksmock, I can't really complain when people think I'm a cocksmock. But still, I think it pays to remember that even if the person's a manic poster doing fifty a day, still they won't be able to show you all of themselves.

Usually people won't be open and revealing, won't be at all humble online. If I post, "this is the way it is, and anyone who thinks differently is a fuckwit," I'll get a lot of responses. If I post, "I think it could be this way, but I'm not sure, what do you guys think?" I get a few responses, but not many. If I post, "I just don't know," then I'll get no responses at all. Likewise, as we saw with the threads about my game with the difficult player, when I posted how annoyed I was, I got lots of responses; when I posted that I had fucked up and was sorry, the responses quickly dwindled away to nothing.

So we choose what we're going to reveal about ourselves, what sides we'll show, and the medium of a forum encourages us to reveal the angry, arrogant, know-it-all side, because people will respond, we'll know they're reading. If we reveal the calm, humble, apologetic and doubtful side, we'll get no responses, no-one will talk to us.

The medium shapes the message. Combine this with the natural human tendency to reveal some things about ourselves but not others, and you get places like internet forums.

I may be Jewish, but old Jesus did say one good thing, "judge not, that ye be judged" - that is, careful how you judge people, in case you'll be judged by the same standards. Obviously I don't believe in not judging people at all, but the standards I choose are those I'm happy to be judged by myself. So I'll judge negatively someone who expresses violent bigotry about some particular group, or someone who is deliberately obscure in their talk and calls it being smart. I'm happy to be judged by those standards.

In short, it doesn't matter where and how you said something. If I really don't get along with someone online, I wouldn't want to meet them.

There's the other aspect, too - whether they post at all. I've a few good friends in the roleplaying hobby, and they don't post at all. So I don't get along with them online - they're unknown to me, if I judged them by their lack of posts, I'd think they were boring and not worth talking to. Yet in person they're nice.

[JongWK]

You still have your head up your ass.  But you don't like the place.  Cool.  I don't really care.  But it is totally possible to post there, and post about unpopular topics, and not get friggin banned over it.  You might not be popular, but not banned.

Possible? Yes.

Totally possible? No.

[Consonant Dude]

So, what, I'm supposed to keep a documented curriculum vitae of your posting history?  Some guy I barely know, and could care less about?

Not at all (although just for the record, I said in this very thread that I have never been warned, suspended or banned). But if you don't know my posting history, don't go saying things that turn out not to be true.

Although, thinking about it further, maybe it's best that way. Shows you are very consistent in ignoring facts and making shit up.

[Kyle Aaron]

And the red mod voice comes to gamecraft, too.

(Scroll down, I had to link the thread, that forum doesn't seem to allow linking to individual posts.)

Sad.

Whenever mods pull the "mod voice," I always imagine...

[Hackmastergeneral]

Not at all (although just for the record, I said in this very thread that I have never been warned, suspended or banned). But if you don't know my posting history, don't go saying things that turn out not to be true.

Although, thinking about it further, maybe it's best that way. Shows you are very consistent in ignoring facts and making shit up.

Oh climb down off your cross.

I missed one friggin post in a very long thread when I came late to the party.  It happens.

The "facts" you are saying I am ignoring are, in fact, simply your opinions.  

For some reason, you and others have a bug up your ass about RPG.net.  Thats fine.  I have been posting there for years and have never ONCE seen anyone banned who didn't deserve it.

But you know what?  You've found another place to post.  A place you feel more comfortable with.  Thats great, and thats whats important.  Why invest so much of your time and energy on a place that you  don't like?

Its called a life.  I suggest you get one.

[Kyle Aaron]

I have been posting there for years and have never ONCE seen anyone banned deserve it.

Not even spammers?

[droog]

Whenever mods pull the "mod voice," I always imagine...

I imagine something more like goatse.

[Hackmastergeneral]

Possible? Yes.

Totally possible? No.

It certainly is.  I've posted plenty of times, disagreeing with "indy" and "forge" games on RPG.net.  I've mentioned frequently my dislike for communal storytelling that tries to masquerade as an RPG, and diceless games, and most of the Forge mechanics I've seen.

But, you see, I do it without coming off like a jackass, insulting people, and backsassing the mods when I get called on it.

I actually once got into a heated discussion with a mod over the whole deal, and guess what?  Didn't get warned once.  Cause I didn't act like a jackass.

I'm FAR from the most popular poster there, although I get along with lots of folk there, simply because I enjoy the personalities there (A2K is an awesome person, and the Brits are a hysterical bunch), and I don't act like a jackass.  But I don't kiss ass and suck up either.

Give this place a few more years.  There'll be in-memes, and "cliques" and "packs" - this is a social place, eventually all social organizations develop their own internal dialogue patterns and social mores.  They may not be overt like Tangency, but when a large group of people interact socially, a social order will eventually occur.  People will develop friendships, and maybe relationships from here, and there will be fallings out of friends, and gaming gatehrings and the like.  Its inevitable.

[Hackmastergeneral]

Not even spammers?

Whoops, who DIDN'T deserve it.  Mind fart.  :deflated: