rpg.net forums down

[Consonant Dude]

Why would your behaviour in an online forum affect whether he wanted to game with you? You can be fun in a game group and a cocksmock in a forum, and vice versa.

Not to take Cessna's defense, because I would most certainly like to game with James but online behavior does affect me. Heck, that's why I think I'd like to game with James in the first place!

There are only two differences in communication that I see between face to face and forums:

1-You have to type and cannot see or hear your interlocutor. This makes it a little more complicated to figure out tone, emotions, etc...

2-There's very little to no accountability in the conversations.

Now, #1 is legitimate. You're likely to have misunderstandings when you communicate with someone. Heck, it's likely to happen face to face with close friends so it's going to happen on forums with people you know less. But there's a difference between an argument, or misunderstanding and seeing you are really incompatible with a person. Polite, mature individuals will come to an understanding despite the limitations of the medium.

As for #2 there's no excuse for it. I think a lot of folks are likely very nice in persons and hide behind the written medium when they are online but I consider those folks fucking cowards. I think they reveal more about their true selves online than they do offline and I absolutely don't want anything to do with them.

In short, it doesn't matter where and how you said something. If I really don't get along with someone online, I wouldn't want to meet them.

[Consonant Dude]

Which part was the insult aside from the clear demonstration that MacLennan is ignoring Sorensen's sardonicism for the sake of an excuse to get rid of him?

Is it the term "revenge-banning?" Cause that's my favorite of the entire post.

Well, it might be your favorite part of the post but it's pretty insulting. The overall tone of his post is cranky and he ends it with "pathetic".

Not exactly how you start a productive conversation.

[Ian Absentia]

I just get tired of the self-pity of many of the mods and admins. "We do this for free, and it's so haaaaaard." "Well then, stop!"

I think that's actually what started me out on taking Cessna to task.  As just a plain ol' poster, I thought he seemed like a decent enough fellow with whom I shared a few gaming interests.  As a simple mod, I think it may have been a year or more before I even noticed his promotion.  But as an admin, I just started to look at what this crappy, thankless, volunteer job was doing to him and said, "Dude.  You have a wife and a kid now, for which you should be happy.  You have a shitty job, about which you should be doing something.  What the fuck are you doing here making yourself even more unhappy?  Just enjoying the opportunity to take it out on others?  Do something good for yourself and get yourself the fuck out of this job."

!i!

[PhishStyx]

Well, it might be your favorite part of the post but it's pretty insulting. The overall tone of his post is cranky and he ends it with "pathetic".

Not exactly how you start a productive conversation.

I don't ever recall a conversation with rpg.net's revenge banning staff BEING productive.

Usually, it goes one of two ways, either "Shut up or get banned," unless it's Darren ('cause he's such a literate guy) then it's "SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH."

Which of those is supposed to be the productive model?

[Consonant Dude]

I don't ever recall a conversation with rpg.net's revenge banning staff BEING productive.

We'll file that behavior under "deliberately obtsuse", then. I can't say the process is perfect, but TT does clarify a lot of things and many questions users ask are answered in a satisfactory fashion.

So, there are problems but the fact you think it's acceptable to barge in there and inappropriately address the staff tells me a lot more about your own issues and what the moderators have to deal with than any faults they may have.

Usually, it goes one of two ways, either "Shut up or get banned," unless it's Darren ('cause he's such a literate guy) then it's "SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH."

Yeah, Darren is definitly one of the weakest moderators at RPG.net.

But anyway, your question is answered. You showed a post dripping with snark, outrage and written in an insulting tone and asked what was bad about it. The stuff has been pointed out to you.

[PhishStyx]

We'll file that behavior under "deliberately obtsuse", then.

An interesting characterization of the rpg.net staff you have there, bud.

So, there are problems but the fact you think it's acceptable to barge in there

Barge? It's a forum. He's a member. What barging was involved?

and inappropriately address the staff

He asked questions.

Oh.

Right.

I can definitely see how THAT would be a problem.

tells me a lot more about your own issues and what the moderators have to deal with than any faults they may have.

I certainly don't think he needs to invite "The Fuck? Moderator" over for tea & crumpets before he posts a criticism of what's happening there.

Yeah, Darren is definitly one of the weakest moderators at RPG.net.

But anyway, your question is answered. You showed a post dripping with questions, criticism and written in the same tone used by the alleged moderators when doing their job and asked what was bad about it. The stuff has been pointed out to you.

Well, you got me there, didn't ya. Excuse me, while I golf clap for your amazing win of the internet.

[Consonant Dude]

An interesting characterization of the rpg.net staff you have there, bud.

No. Deliberately obtuse. We're talking about you here.

Barge? It's a forum. He's a member. What barging was involved?



He asked questions.

Oh.

Right.

I can definitely see how THAT would be a problem.

Deliberately obtuse, again. No, he didn't just ask a question. As anyone can clearly see, he was not asking in a way conducive to dialogue. He was rambling. He was rude. He was insulting.

I certainly don't think he needs to invite "The Fuck? Moderator" over for tea & crumpets before he posts a criticism of what's happening there.

He could have asked for more reasons politely, or expressed his disagreement, without insults and with a cool head.

Well, you got me there, didn't ya. Excuse me, while I golf clap for your amazing win of the internet.

I don't need "the win". The way you twist every word and ignore the facts, I think you need the win a lot more than anyone else.

[Gabriel]

Not exactly how you start a productive conversation.

Well, Cessna has pretty openly stated that he views everyone as the enemy, and anyone who has any disgreement with the modstaff is nothing more than a troublemaker, so it's pretty difficult to have an environment of constructive commentary.

I'll tell this tale again, because it really illustrates the RPGnet modstaff line of thought.  A long time ago, there was a forum (I think it was called The Cesspool).  This forum's purpose on RPGnet was as a place posters could go and air their grievances about moderators "without fear of reprisal" because the moderators were not allowed to look at this section, only administrators were.  I think "without fear of reprisal" pretty much demonstrates the atmosphere at RPGnet before I even get to the rest of the story.

Well, the forum inevitably became primarily about Darren's modding, because up until Curt's appointment, he had always been the most capricious of the mods.  Well, instead of doing anything about recurring complaints, Cessna eventually commented something about closing down the forum because too many people were complaining.  But that's nothing new in itself, RPGnet has always tried to hide the complaints rather than deal with them.

Anyway, somehow the subject of the security of the forum and the comments came up.  As we all know, sockpuppet accounts are encouraged on RPGnet.  And several moderators have commented they have multiple accounts.  I merely commented that it would be no problem for a moderator to log on in his non-moderator handle and then view the "confidential" information in the Cesspool.  So, the section wasn't really secure or confidential in the first place.

Of course, Cessna had a minor blow up at this observation.  How dare I characterize the moderators in that manner!  They were all fair, objective people whose integrity was unquestionable.  

Later, the Cesspool was closed.  The cited reason was that too many users used it to stir up shit on the otherwise peaceful forum.  I can only assume that since the moderators were all flawless individuals of sterling character that it was realized there was no reason for the forum section.

As far as I've observed, it's not really possible to have a discussion with several of the RPGnet mods/admins, because they are right and everyone else is wrong, and the wrong-thinkers are quickly silenced.  Not a particularly good environment.

[David R]

A lot of you guys on this thread were/are long time posters (some of who, I'm surprised got banned) on tBP, so my question is, why is it with such fucked up mod practises, the majority of posters continue to frequent the site?

Regards,
David R

[Bradford C. Walker]

A lot of you guys on this thread were/are long time posters (some of who, I'm surprised got banned) on tBP, so my question is, why is it with such fucked up mod practices, the majority of posters continue to frequent the site?

The traffic flow is second only to the big RPG company sites, like the D&D forums at WOTC's site.  Traffic flow, and thus the turnaround time on threads, is a big component in attracting and retaining users; RPG Net has the largest flow of all the independent tabletop RPG sites, with only EN World as its rival.  Add those whose interest is primarily or solely Tangency--the Bulletproofs, Himes, Shimadas and the like--and you have your answer.  (Tangency is not only the largest single forum at RPG Net, it also either #1 or #2 in posting traffic, making it very active as well.)  Fast-paced, highly-trafficked forums make for large user bases despite moderation policies (sometimes, because of them; notice the change in the character of the user base over time, as it conforms to the standards that the moderation policy encourages).

[Consonant Dude]

A lot of you guys on this thread were/are long time posters (some of who, I'm surprised got banned) on tBP, so my question is, why is it with such fucked up mod practises, the majority of posters continue to frequent the site?

Regards,
David R

The content, the variety. It's vast and it has something for everyone.

That's where a lot of "stories" break. So it's a huge, centralized source of discussions. Even if a person does not like biases or mods or whatever, there's probably interesting info there.

Like when there's problem with a GURPS' book spine, or a controversial entry on Dancey's blog. Recently, Wick's new fantasy game using FATE caught my interest. Also, a few months ago only a RPG.net user contacted me and asked me if I was interested in the Spherewalker Sourcebook. It's an extremely rare OOP product for my favorite game, Everway. We ended up doing a trade that pleased us both. Amazing stuff!

The sheer volume of posters is unbeatable. I mean, you could have the smartest, most dedicated userbase of 500 but you would never cover all the angles the way RPG.net does. Most people know this and that's also why they break the stories there.

[David R]

(... notice the change in the character of the user base over time, as it conforms to the standards that the moderation policy encourages).

This I find pretty interesting. What exactly do you mean by change in character ? Are you talking about RPG Open or Tangency Open or both?

Regards,
David R

[David R]

The sheer volume of posters is unbeatable. I mean, you could have the smartest, most dedicated userbase of 500 but you would never cover all the angles the way RPG.net does. Most people know this and that's also why they break the stories there.

Yeah, this is the main (only?) reason why a couple of gamer friends of mine post/lurk exclusively over there.

Regards,
David R

[Consonant Dude]

This I find pretty interesting. What exactly do you mean by change in character ? Are you talking about RPG Open or Tangency Open or both?

Regards,
David R

Can't speak for Bradford but I've noticed a change in character as well. More docile userbase. A lot of blatantly fake positivism as well.

On average (there are exceptions) this makes for the mass of users being easier to moderate as they are striving for acceptance by sucking virtual dicks. I think there are currently three active threads in trouble tickets basically worshiping moderation and administration.

This makes for a lot of activity and is basically sort of like advertising. Industry guys love it because people are encouraged to praise products instead of speaking with objectivity, users love it because the vibe is that everything is great, moderators love it because they don't have to intervene. Yay!

[Ian Absentia]

What exactly do you mean by change in character ? Are you talking about RPG Open or Tangency Open or both?

CD cites "fake positivism', with which I have to concur.  However, I'd characterise it more like this.  There is an increasingly greater body of active posters there who openly and vociferously express their general misery and unhappiness in life.  These same people have staked their claim on RPG.net, and Tangency in particular, as their ground for commiseration, and yet they simultaneously demand that people act happy and friendly in order to create a "positive and open environment" that they can enjoy without feeling judged.

In other words, losers.  Pathological losers who have cultivated an environment to affirm that no one is any better off than they are, and that they can go on ad nauseum about their issues and never be confronted on them.

There.  I said it.

!i!