rpg.net forums down

[droog]

You guys just don't know how to play strategically. Or is it tactically? I always get those mixed up.

[John Morrow]

What I came to realise was that RPG.net was, and remains, an incredibly antagonistic environment for right-of-the-middle politics and "traditional" RPGs.

RPGnet has never been a friendly place for right-of-the-middle politics (sometimes even right-of-Noam-Chomsky politics) but it was possible to say right-of-the-middle things without getting banned if one could keep their cool and not flame back.  I wasn't banned despite being involved in the gay marriage and gay adoption threads that got Curt banned in 2004 -- now curiously deleted when I went looking for it.  I'm not sure if I could say the things now that I could say then without getting banned, though.

[Consonant Dude]

So a user (who I don't know) named Dave Turner called Darren out about the Sorensen thing.

He used the intriguing term "revenge-banning." I find that term fitting for what seems to happen most commonly at rpg.net.

So after an administrator and 2 moderators respond insultingly to Dave, Eric Brennan ends the thread with "That goes for everybody -- we don't mind criticism." Apparently, that only applies to the kind that doesn't actually criticize them.

Let's be fair. Dave Turner acted like an idiot. You don't start a discussion with someone by insulting them. That's even more true when they happen to be moderators.

They've also had a number of threads regarding Sorensen due to the irrational mancrush many users have for the dude. And to top it off, they claim they will give Turner a shot at opening yet another thread on the subject tomorrow.

I'm not even sure Turner got a formal warning.  I would have banned his ass right there. Proof that a lot of moderation is subjective.

As much as I question certain moderation policies over at RPG.net, retards getting outraged over nothing and barging on Trouble Tickets absolutely does not help matters. It makes legitimate issues less likely to be heard with the appropriate seriousness.

[Tom B]

I have to say I've never received a warning, and minimal dogpiling.  Of course, I tend to avoid political threads, but my comments have tended to be more right-wing than left.  (I have a strong devil's advocate response that I try to keep reined in...)

Most of the banning seems to occur when someone snaps and starts striking back personally.

[PhishStyx]

For those who cannot otherwise see it, here is Turner's post copied in it's entirety.

I've heard that Sorensen was banned for imitating a mod:

Originally Posted by Darren MacLennan
Imitating a mod, or even pretending to, and then sassing back when you've been asked to explain your baffling actions, is a sign that you've simply gone around the deep end

I guess this was because Jared was saying "My mod voice is black" in his posts? In the context of how mods are identified at RPG.net (unique avatar style, formal title in their subject line), how can anyone seriously claim that there was a genuine worry that Jared was imitating a mod? Since the thread has been removed, I can only wonder if he actually wrote things that could be interpreted as mod commands? Did he try to use his "authority" to tell others to stop posting? Did he threaten to ban someone that wasn't a mod?

Originally Posted by Darren
(And it wouldn't have been long until somebody reported one of his posts and said "Wait, is Sorenson a mod?" We just added two; it wouldn't be hard to get confused.)
And it would have killed you to reply that all RPG.net mods have unique avatars and signatures that properly identify them? Apparently, that would be too much trouble.

At least pick a remotely plausible reason for your revenge-banning. Pathetic.

Which part was the insult aside from the clear demonstration that MacLennan is ignoring Sorensen's sardonicism for the sake of an excuse to get rid of him?

Is it the term "revenge-banning?" Cause that's my favorite of the entire post.

[jdrakeh]

For me, the beginning of the end was when I started calling bullshit on Cessna for snarky thread-crapping then pulling out his mod-dick when people would respond to his provocation.

That was exactly what sparked the incident that resulted in my banning (that's not what ended it, but that it where it started). The really odd thing was that, my the last PM I received before my banning (which was actually undertaken by Curt) came from Cessna. . .

He informed me that he lives an hour North of me (which I knew) and that if I'd been a bit more cordial (read "if I'd let him crap on my thread and not called him on it"), I might have been invited to game with him. . . but that I blew my chance.

Why would somebody even send out a PM like that? Was he expecting me to break down in tears or something? It sounded as if he thought that one should view the opportunity to game with a RPGnet mod (or, possibly, just him) as being akin to winning the lottery.

This was easily the most bizarre online behavior I had witnessed for a long time -- not infuriating, mind you, simply puzzling.

[Dominus Nox]

That was exactly what sparked the incident that resulted in my banning (that's not what ended it, but that it where it started). The really odd thing was that, my the last PM I received before my banning (which was actually undertaken by Curt) came from Cessna. . .

He informed me that he lives an hour North of me (which I knew) and that if I'd been a bit more cordial (read "if I'd let him crap on my thread and not called him on it"), I might have been invited to game with him. . . but that I blew my chance.

Why would somebody even send out a PM like that? Was he expecting me to break down in tears or something? It sounded as if he thought that one should view the opportunity to game with a RPGnet mod (or, possibly, just him) as being akin to winning the lottery.

This was easily the most bizarre online behavior I had witnessed for a long time -- not infuriating, mind you, simply puzzling.

Dude, if you live within an hour of cessna, for god's sake please take the opprotunity to go down to where he lives and call him a pompous asshole right to his face, preferably in front of his game group.

If the price of gas is an issue, I'll personally take up a collection on this forum to raise money to send you to pay for the gas, round trip.

[Kyle Aaron]

He informed me that he lives an hour North of me (which I knew) and that if I'd been a bit more cordial (read "if I'd let him crap on my thread and not called him on it"), I might have been invited to game with him. . . but that I blew my chance.

Why would your behaviour in an online forum affect whether he wanted to game with you? You can be fun in a game group and a cocksmock in a forum, and vice versa.

I mean, if you consistently insult someone over years, or if you talk about all this game stuff which is just utterly out of their kind of thing, fair enough they wouldn't want to game with you. But if you just break some forum rules... Who cares?

Strange shit. Forums are not the same as sitting there around a game table.

[Quasar]

Why would your behaviour in an online forum affect whether he wanted to game with you? You can be fun in a game group and a cocksmock in a forum, and vice versa.

I mean, if you consistently insult someone over years, or if you talk about all this game stuff which is just utterly out of their kind of thing, fair enough they wouldn't want to game with you. But if you just break some forum rules... Who cares?

Strange shit. Forums are not the same as sitting there around a game table.

Perhaps but it would make an impact on me and whether I'd want to play with a given person. After all that's potentially my first impression of the person.

[droog]

Cessna sounds like he'd be a pretty boring guy to know.

[PhishStyx]

Who cares?

Well, him obviously.

I think what intrigues me most about it is that a couple years ago when Cessna started getting into that "cranky mode" for a while, I tried to have a conversation with him about what was going on (as did a number of others).

One of his big points was that rpg.net is not a community of any kind and never genuinely was; RPG.net is a business run by Skotos and administered by him. As a result, he intends to do whatever he damn well pleases, which all means that I and everyone else should shut the hell up and leave him and the other admins/moderators alone.

To me, that opinion as well as Darren's
"I don't think that your grip on the English language is the best.* I think that you should leave the moderation of the forum - and decisions about the behaviors of the moderators - to us.  Sound good? Good."

looks like a statement of
"Hey, no fair! Quit criticizing us, 'cause we can't handle it. We get to shit on YOU, not the other way around!"

*NOTE: I double majored in English and philosophy, so I'm fairly certain that my grasp of English is considerably better than Darren MacLennan's.

[jdrakeh]

Dude, if you live within an hour of cessna, for god's sake please take the opprotunity to go down to where he lives and call him a pompous asshole right to his face, preferably in front of his game group.

Honestly, it's not worth my time. I've got far more productive things to do with my days than harass Cessna.

[Kyle Aaron]

Cessna sounds like he'd be a pretty boring guy to know.

Well, who knows. He consciously blands himself out these days, it's that, "I must be a Distant and Impartial Leader!" thing. I just get tired of the self-pity of many of the mods and admins. "We do this for free, and it's so haaaaaard." "Well then, stop!"

One of his big points was that rpg.net is not a community of any kind and never genuinely was; RPG.net is a business run by Skotos and administered by him. As a result, he intends to do whatever he damn well pleases, which all means that I and everyone else should shut the hell up and leave him and the other admins/moderators alone.

That's what I mean. Self-pity and a sense of entitlement. It's like when geeks start yabbering about how some game designer didn't answer their question about whether they could stack feat #1,348 with feat #2,082 or not. "ZOMFG how dare you! I deserve better!"

A moderator deserves a degree of gratitude for their efforts which help a forum work well - if it's working well. They deserve respect as any human being (yes, there are human beings at the other end of this text! Amazing, eh?). But, you know, that's all. They don't deserve unquestioning obedience or anything - it's just a fucking geek discussion site. If you put yourself out there online, expect to get the occasional kick.

I mean, I post a lot. I get to have a few people online recognise my name and say, "oh, you wrote up so-and-so." The good side of that is occasional admiration and an ice-breaker for people to start talking to me, and some interesting conversations. The bad side is that some people will choose me as a target, insult me for years on end and from forum to forum. But you know, if it's too much for me - I can just stop posting stuff.

So if it's all too hard for Cessna and his mates, they can just quit. When a guy steps in the shit, splashes it around on himself, I'll offer him a hand up and out - but if he keeps splashing and saying how everyone should feel sorry for him and ladle great gobs of respect on him for his wading through shit, well, no.

So I just imagine Cessna being a guy who runs his game group, never lets anyone else GM but always complains about how thankless a task GMing is! That's the impression I get but I don't know. You really have to be some kind of drongo to judge people by a few internet posts, who knows what they're like in real life? That applies as much for Cessna telling jdrakeh he won't game with him because of his posts, and jdrakeh saying, "I don't care, I wouldn't want to game with you anyway!" Get some perspective, lads.

[O'Borg]

Oh he isn't "former" anymore. He's back on the administration staff officially.

I think it's now Nina who's occupying the "Former admin but still sticks her oar in a lot" position.
They've also recruited a couple more Moderators to swell the ranks since JonA and Levi quit.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

The thing that bothers me about RPG.net's moderation is this:

Tim and I are about to release a controversial book.  Among other things, it includes a discussion of sexual relationships in apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic environments (both gay and straight) and how to handle rape in your games.  I don't want to derail the thread so check my blog if you want to know more

It is not misogynistic (though I will accept accusations of misanthropy), but it's easy to characterise that way.  I can easily see someone writing a review describing it as FATAL d20 and posting it on TBP.  We'll be obliged to respond

Tim, bless his artificial limb joints, has a posting style that could be described as a little bit abrasive (in the same way that Ebola is a little bit contagious) and is the only person who I've seen use the word "cunt" as a noun, verb, adjective, adverb and conjunction.  If I wanted a nuclear fall-out shelter designing or a hostage rescue mission planning and executing he would be the person I would go to.  If I wanted a delicate PR exercise carried out ... he would not

So it will fall to me to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous dogpiling while avoiding the Scylla and Charybdis of RPG.net's moderation policy.  I'm not looking forward to it