Quote from: John Morrow;230079I tried to think of a terse way to summarize why I was excluding him but couldn't do it justice.  I think you did a fine job there.  Other conservative talk show hosts openly mock him and few conservatives seem to take him seriously.

I've heard (more than once) that he might well be a plant - someone intentionally trying to discredit conservatives by going far overboard to present himself as such. I've listened to him a few times (well, 10-15 minutes at a stretch, from time to time, just long enough to get home after work), and to be honest, sometimes I wonder.

That said, I really like Michael Medved - why? Because sometimes he makes my blood pressure rise, which tells me he might well be on to something. Rush is just what he presents himself to be; an entertainer, and sometimes I enjoy him. Glenn Beck IS just an entertainer, so I enjoy listening because he succeeds - he entertains me. That's about it for my "regular" listening, considering I can't listen at work anymore.

Back when I COULD listen at work - Neal Boortz was my main man.

Quote from: John Morrow;229367How much time do you spend listening to right-wing commentators or do you simply trust the characterizations provided to you by the likes of FAIR and MoveOn.org?  Can you give me some specific examples of the sort of hatred you are talking about?

I've read both of Rush Limbaugh's first two books, about a quarter of Coulter's book "Treason" (truly disturbing woman, that Coulter), seen a dozen episodes of the No Spin Zone, listened to countless hours of various right-wing talkshow hosts while driving around the country (I've logged a lot of hours driving back and forth across Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming, and the right wing crap spouters annoy me less than the pontificating preacher idiots).  And I used to read American Spectator.

I don't really pay much attention to FAIR or MoveOn.  I get most of my news from NPR, Time and Newsweek.  Sometimes the local papers, including the alternative rags.  And then I read a lot of outsider history and deep leftist stuff, the kind of things one finds at anarchist bookstores.

I don't need other people to tell me that these people are idiots and windbags.  I was reading Rush Limbaugh's first book, I was maybe 18 at the time, and I got to the part where he claimed there were more trees in America than when it was founded as evidence of how overblown and exaggerated the environmental movement is.  Of course, he was counting trees in the original 13 colonies versus trees in modern deforested American including Alaska.  Cheating dirtbag.

Ann Coulter, in the opening paragraph of her book, makes the claim that all liberals are born to become liberals, cannot help be anything but liberals, and are all traitors by their very nature.  Traitors are, of course, punished by death.  She doesn't mention this, but it's implied in the charge.  If she had made the same claim about Jews she'd be called a Nazi -- and keep in mind, she claims liberalism was congential trait, thus she posits that liberals are a race of people.

And then there's these professional assholes, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, etc. who I've caught here and there -- not so much now that I don't have cable -- and while I forget the specifics, their spewings were transparent as could be, and they are small minded hateful men.  Asswipes in short.

QuoteSo what exactly has Michelle Malkin said that's comparable to saying that the victims of 9/11 deserved their fate because they were "little Eichmanns"?  I'm sure you have plenty of examples in mind so please be specific.

She wrote a poorly researched and high racist book justifying the internment of Japanese-Americans in WW2 on the grounds of race alone.  And Churchhill never said they deserved their fate, he said that nobody should b surprised they were selected as targets.

Quote from: Jackalope;230155She wrote a poorly researched and high racist book justifying the internment of Japanese-Americans in WW2 on the grounds of race alone.  

I'm sure if I were Chinese I'd feel similarly.

Quote from: S'mon;230162I'm sure if I were Chinese I'd feel similarly.

She's Phillipino, but that really doesn't make a difference.  Imprisoning Americans because of their country of origin is at war with our own is unjustifiable.  Doing it selectively -- not to Italians and Germans -- doubly so.

Holy cow, Jackalope - you really do believe the Hype, doncha?

Again - Gonzo... racist.... Gonzo... sexist... Gonzo... nuts... can you not tell the difference?

Heh - nevermind.

Quote from: Jackalope;230166She's Phillipino, but that really doesn't make a difference.  Imprisoning Americans because of their country of origin is at war with our own is unjustifiable.  Doing it selectively -- not to Italians and Germans -- doubly so.

OK - "If I were Philippino..."

I don't know enough about the internment policy to know if it was obviously wildly excessive in the conditions of 1941.   Certainly the Japanese government expected assistance from ethnic Japanese on the west coast of the USA, and there was a credible threat of invasion after Pearl Harbor, say if the US carrier fleet had been sunk at Midway, which was certainly possible.  The Japanese were in a position where they started strong but didn't have the industrial capacity to win a long naval war with the US, so it would have been logical to attack the US west coast shipyards, given the opportunity.  

The Nazis expected assistance from German-Americans too, but with Britain in the way the German surface fleet never posed a credible threat to the US east coast.  But I expect you're probably right that the policy was racist and not really justified by the small threat actually posed by Japanese nationals.

Edit: Re Italians, I don't think there was ever a significant pro-Fascist element among Italian-Americans.  Italy as a State was a pretty recent phenomenon and there wasn't the kind of trans-Italian loyalty among emigrants that the Nazis and Imperial Japanese govts could try to appeal to. Also my impression is that many Italian-Americans had roots in poorer parts of Italy like Sicily, whereas Fascist support was focused in better off areas and in the lower-middle to middle classes.  German National Socialism started as a working-class movement, Italian Fascism had lower-class street fighters but was much more middle class in its origins.

Quote from: Werekoala;230171Holy cow, Jackalope - you really do believe the Hype, doncha?

Again - Gonzo... racist.... Gonzo... sexist... Gonzo... nuts... can you not tell the difference?

Heh - nevermind.

What the fuck are you babbling about?

Is this the "Oh, they only spew hatred as a joke!" defense?

Not funny!

Quote from: Jackalope;230155Ann Coulter, in the opening paragraph of her book, makes the claim that all liberals are born to become liberals, cannot help be anything but liberals, and are all traitors by their very nature.  Traitors are, of course, punished by death.  She doesn't mention this, but it's implied in the charge.  

OK, two things here. The statement (which I bet you are misremembering) that all liberals are born to be liberals is pretty obviously gonzo - no matter how you slice it and reads more like comedy than anything else. Saying that Ann Coulter didn't mention liberals being killed as traitors but that it is implied means that you are the one who interpreted that statement to mean something other than what she said.

Quote from: jeff37923;230238OK, two things here. The statement (which I bet you are misremembering) that all liberals are born to be liberals is pretty obviously gonzo - no matter how you slice it and reads more like comedy than anything else.

Actually, it reads exactly like the fascist propagandists from before WW2.  it's not "gonzo," it's not "funny," it's fucking scary.  She is spouting the exact same things, about the exact same people, that the Nazis did before they seized control.

And seriously dude, if that books reads as comedy to you, and not the sick ravings of a diseased mind, then you have serious issues.

You know, the guys at Stormfront publish humor books to.  Books full of jokes about killing niggers and jews.  Us normal people recognize that finding humor in overt, violent racism is a sign of a sick and unhealthy mind.

Likewise, us normal healthy people recognize that finding humor in demonizing and castigating a broad section of the population as traitors, and generally acting like a Nazi cunt, to be humor of the "troubled mind" variety.

Seriously, would you think I was "funny" if i railed all day and all night about how you're a sick fucking pervert who ought to be locked away in a jail for the rest of your life, with no trial, and sodomized repeatedly by bears.

Would you find it funny were I to call for liberals to rise up and shoot a fascist for freedom, kill your local Republican?  What if I sold millions of books doing it?

Would you accept it as just being "gonzo?"

Sorry dude, "gonzo" explains how your PC ends up fighting Dwarf Vader, a small armored dwarf with a flaming sword and mental powers, on Barsoom while the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles protect your back from the Legion of Zombie Playboy Bunnies.  That's gonzo.  Spewing hatred and vitirol and calling it a "a joke" is just played out, and nobody with any intelligence falls for it.

QuoteSaying that Ann Coulter didn't mention liberals being killed as traitors but that it is implied means that you are the one who interpreted that statement to mean something other than what she said.

A traitor is a type of criminal.  The specific crime of treason is punishable by death in pretty much every country.  I didn't make up the implication.

And no, I'm not misremembering it.  I remember at the time rewriting the paragraph and replacing the word liberal with Jew.  All of the statements still made perfect sense, because she was talking about liberals as a race and not as people with common ideas, and when i posted the modified comments to several political discussion boards and asked people to identify the source, the majority assumed it was the opening to Mein Kamf.

That's how powerful the hatred screams out of Coulter's writing.

No worse than railing about how about half the population is what, spoiled, can't handle the environment here, and isn't fit for the table?

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Anne Coulter.

"While the form of treachery varies slightly from case to case, liberals always manage to take the position that most undermines American security."
Anne Coulter

"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America's self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant."
Anne Coulter

"These broads are millionaires, lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by griefparrazies. I have never seen people enjoying their husband's deaths so much."

Anne Coulter on 9/11 widows who have been critical of the Bush administration

"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building." Anne Coulter

"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too. Otherwise they will turn out to be outright traitors."
Anne Coulter

"My libertarian friends are probably getting a little upset now but I think that's because they never appreciate the benefits of local fascism."-Anne Coulter (OK, not really hate, but definitely a bit psychotic)

""Liberals hate America, they hate "flag-wavers," they hate abortion opponents, they hate all religions except Islam (post 9/11). Even Islamic terrorists don't hate America like liberals do. They don't have the energy. If they had that much energy, they'd have indoor plumbing by now."
Anne Coulter

"I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo."
Anne Coulter

"[Anti-war Democrats] know that the American people support defending America, unlike them. Their real feelings are coming out as much as they can right now, which is that they're desperately dying to provide aid and support to al-Qaeda."
Anne Coulter

And that is just the Anne Coulter ones.  I have work to do, so it may be a bit before I find lots of hatred and such for liberals just this side of advocating violence from other figures.

Quote from: shewolf;230347No worse than railing about how about half the population is what, spoiled, can't handle the environment here, and isn't fit for the table?

Actually shewolf, saying that liberal minded people are born enemies of their home nations, and that the security of a country depends on suppressing and intimidating that segment of the population into going along with an war-mongering government set up for the benefit of elites is significantly worse than saying girls suck at D&D, or saying that girls can't hack it unmoderated male-dominated forums.

I mean really, they aren't even in the same league as statements go.

But, you're a girl, I really shouldn't expect rational analogies from you...

I'm still trying to understand how come you can possibly - well, how anyone can possibly - believe that Coulter is being dead serious with what she writes. Guess I must not have that particular genetic predisposition.

Quote from: Werekoala;230447I'm still trying to understand how come you can possibly - well, how anyone can possibly - believe that Coulter is being dead serious with what she writes. Guess I must not have that particular genetic predisposition.

I don't think she's being dead serious.  I think she thinks she's writing comedy gold.

I just think her sense of humor would be best described as sociopathic and misanthropic to the point of revulsion.

This is how to write right wing style humor:  

Start with two pages of poorly researched and shoddily attributed statistics that shows that outside of the most white collar of white collar crimes, the majority of people who are imprisioned for criminal acts are minorities.  Never mentioned the catch-and-release policy for white petty offenders, never mentioned the institutional aspects of racism that contribute to this.)

Then say "I can't help but notice that the majority of criminals in America are black.  Maybe if white people took it upon themselves to start practicing their lynching skills again, with mannequins and dummies of course, that might help motivate the black community to address these issues.  No, but seriously, something needs to be done." follow that with three pages of poorly researched and shoddily attributed research proving the criminality of the African-American community.  Discuss rap music in negative terms. Then start a new chapter, a lengthy diatribe against guilt-ridden white liberal who want everyone else to suffer for their racism.

When accused of being a disgusting racist and advocating lynching, say "Clearly I was joking, how anyone could take a comment that extreme as anything but a joke, obviously you're just looking for reasons to get upset."

That's how you tell a right-wing joke.

Quote from: Werekoala;230447I'm still trying to understand how come you can possibly - well, how anyone can possibly - believe that Coulter is being dead serious with what she writes.

Given the degree to which she rails, there's wide latitude for venality between "dead serious" and "naw, really, I'm just an entertainer".  Does she have to be dead serious to be wretched?

!i!