Quote from: James McMurrayWhat I'm saying is that the groups of people that either a) believe in the god that was disproven or b) believe in a different god, will continue their faith. So, if Doug is proven to exist, faith in Doug goes away, but faith in anything but Doug (including "there is no Doug") will not go away.

It could be argued that proof of Doug does not likewise disprove Hank. Frankly, I'm more concerned with the behavior of Doug worshippers than Hank worshippers in case Doug is proven.  Unless Doug is proven by striding forth and taking charge of his own worship it is very likely, nay inevitable that Doug worshippers, replacing belief with knowledge will become the worst sort of fanatics.

I am a Jew because, born of Israel and having lost her,

I have felt her live again in me, more living than myself.

I am a Jew because, born of Israel and having regained her,

I wish her to live after me, more living than in myself.

I am a Jew because the faith of Israel demands of me no abdication of the mind.

I am a Jew because the faith of Israel requires of me all the devotion of my heart.

I am a Jew because in every place where suffering weeps, the Jew weeps.

I am a Jew because at every time when despair cries out, the Jew hopes.

I am a Jew because the word of Israel is the oldest and the newest.

I am a Jew because the promise of Israel if the universal promise.

I am a Jew because, for Israel, the world is not yet completed; men are completing it.

I am a Jew because, above the nations and Israel, Israel places man and his Unity.

I am a Jew because above man, image of the divine Unity, Israel places the divine Unity, and its divinity.

- Edmond Fleg, 1927

For me, the key points are,

I am a Jew because the faith of Israel demands of me no abdication of the mind.

I am a Jew because, for Israel, the world is not yet completed; men are completing it.

Judaism does not, in fact, require belief in God. It simply requires that a person follow the Law. This is the same as our civil society. If a man says to a police officer, "I don't believe Parliament exists", the police officer may reply, "okay, you're crazy, but will you obey the Law?" So long as people obey the law, Parliament does not care if people believe it exists or not (though if everyone believed it didn't exist, it might make voting difficult, but that just shows that not every analogy is perfect).

Jews are not required to believe in God, because belief doesn't matter - only actions matter. Belief is only important insofar as it affects actions. If your faith causes you to do bad things, then you are a bad person, and your actions are bad; if your lack of faith causes you to do good things, then you are a good person, and your actions are good.

A piece of bread given to a starving man by an atheist fills the man's belly as well as that given by a devout Jew, or Trappist monk, or Sunni walking about the Qaba in Mecca. It's still bread in the belly.

Belief doesn't matter, only actions matter. Judaism emphasises this - the world is not completed, people are here to complete it.

This kind of faith - in a God who has given us capacities to reason, to create, to care for one another, to complete the world, and in a code of laws which, if followed, will lead to better lives for all - does not require an abdication of reason.

Werd.

No abdication of intellect need be necessary for faith.

Believing anything short of a certainty requires faith.  

The fact that you cannot prove a negative does not change the requirement that the belief in anything short of a certainty requires faith.

Even if you know everything about 1% of the universe, there is still the possibility (one could even argue the probability) that the proof of God's existance lies in the 99% that is unknown to you.

Thus, to believe there is no God is an act of faith.  

You either have dishonest atheists or honest agnostics.  Frankly, I have respect for the man who says "I believe there is no God.  That is my fath.  That is my religion."

I have absolutely no respect for the man who claims to be an atheist and that it is not his religious faith.

Atheism is just as much a religion as Voodoo, Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism and Wicca.

Word up homedog.

From the movie SERENITY :

QuoteShepherd Book: When I talk about belief, why do you always assume I'm talking about God?

...and ....

QuoteShepherd Book: I don't care what you believe in, just believe in it

- E.W.C.

Yeah.  'Cause this was a thread that REALLY neede to be necro'd.  :rolleyes:

After that I feel like seeing the Serenity film just so I can watch Book die.

Quote from: VellorianI have absolutely no respect for the man who claims to be an atheist and that it is not his religious faith.

For the record, there is sometimes a difference between not believing that there is a god and believing that there is no god. Just a thought.

Quote from: beejazzFor the record, there is sometimes a difference between not believing that there is a god and believing that there is no god. Just a thought.

 Interesting thought for mulling over.

 Okay, I looked at the bottom of the page and clicked on "who is currently active" section. Someone else was browsing at this thread. I got curious - so I clicked and started reading.  Last post appeared to be less than 6 months old.

 To "me" thats not a Necro.

 One forum treats 2 years as a "necro" time range , The Big Purple & Pink treats 1 week as a "necro" at times.  I really haven't seen an  internet-wide standard to this.

 Its an interesting topic to me  - alright?

 For the record...I used to be atheist, but I now believe in God.
 I do not go to a church regularly .

- E.W.C.

Quote from: KoltarFor the record...I used to be atheist, but I now believe in God.
 I do not go to a church regularly .

What convinced you there was a god?
Or do you go for the chicks
(Or were you dropped on your head? Brain tumour? Drugs experience?)

Thanks to beejazz for a great thread.

QuoteGRIM said : What convinced you there was a god?
Or do you go for the chicks

 Some Women of Faith are pretty damn HOT!.  So - good question there.  Sex does lead to moments of  screams like : "Oh GOd!! Yes !!! Thank You Jesus!!  Oh Gawd...Oh God...Oh God.."  and similiar sounds of joy.

QuoteOr were you dropped on your head?

 No  -   I wasn't. Just some stuff happened 5 or 6 years ago and I started feeling like there might be a "God"(or deity)  after all. Personal shit - okay?

QuoteBrain tumour?

 Nope - Brain works fine  - body was banged up quite a bit in the last year or two. Car accident - stuff/shit like that.  (I'm still getting used to being able to cuss on a forum)

 

QuoteDrugs experience?

Never did Drugs. Unless you count caffeine too much - then maybe.
 
 My only serious addictions are  : caffeine, interesting music, around-the-table Role Playing Games,  Good Friends,  Good Sex.
The order of priority of those changes from week to week without predictability.

 Even when I was an Atheist - I tended to respect other people's beliefs , didn't always understand their beliefs  -but I didn't give them any shit about it.

- E.W.C.

Quote from: KoltarEven when I was an Atheist - I tended to respect other people's beliefs , didn't always understand their beliefs  -but I didn't give them any shit about it.

Believe me, I'd rather not but internal beliefs have external effect and people make decisions about their (and other people's) lives on an irrational basis scares the crap out of me.

Quote from: GRIMBelieve me, I'd rather not but internal beliefs have external effect and people make decisions about their (and other people's) lives on an irrational basis scares the crap out of me.

And yet you're the one babbling about rationality . . .