Quote from: RPGPunditDude, IF WoTC was planning to betray all of its customers by having boldfacedly lied in their statements that D&D 4e is in no way shape or form coming soon, there's still no fucking way on earth RPG.net's modclique would be informed about it. In the "Industry" (in other words, in the eyes of WoTC, who ARE the only actual member of the REAL "industry"), RPG.net is a nonentity.

Mike Mearls (the chief game designer for Wizards these days) spends more time on this forum than on RPG.net.  Trust me, if there was about to be a 4e released, there's no fucking way that RPG.net would be told about it beforehand.

RPGPundit

I did not mean rpgnet was in the know at all.
What I did mean, maybe rpgnet was thinking ahead for once, just in case or when D&D4e is released, they will have their own sub-forum in place ahead of time.

But I do remember one guy from WotC who said D&D4e was in the works. But they were going to test the waters first with ideas in future releases of games. I see Star Wars Saga as one of these Tests. If successful, they may go lighter as with SW-Saga. But that was over a year I remember reading that over on the WotC boards.

Quote from: walkerpha ha!  Fuck with me rpg.net!  

It was my thread that the OP is referring to.  I had my grubby little hands on the SW Saga book and was very impressed with and interested in its design and marketing approach.  I wanted to discuss how it might impact the market and the hobby overall.  My first thread was a very brief review with lots of my own D20 "hate" in it.  This was moved in seconds to the D20 forum.  I went to Trouble Tickets and asked, very reasonably for it to get moved back.  Waited several hours for a response.  During that time, several other TT requests got a response, include one to move a D20 thread from Open into D20.

So I went back to Open and started another thread, this time without the review and a much clearer position on how this may affect the entire hobby (which I had understood was an allowable exception to discuss D20 things in Open).

This one was moved in about 20 minutes.  I tried to not blow my gasket, but was getting very close.  I was waiting for a response from the mods when Forumulus, the God of Internet Discussion became furious at ShannonA's hubris (or whoever the fuck is pulling his strings) and shot a lightning bolt at their servers.

I don't want to sound hysterical, but they are coming perilously close to censorship with this move.  I have been on the site for about a year and a half, 1,500 posts, some good hot arguments.  I've never been warned.  I've contributed to the index, encouraged friends to check it out.  And now I'm having my perfectly valid threads yanked around to fit their little vision of the world?

C.W. Richeson says it has been talked to death, which is true.  It has been talked to death by the users, but the Mods are skirting around the issue and ShannonA has said absolutely nothing of substance.  It's clear that many of the mods are not comfortable with the change and are towing the line.  And its clear that ShannonA's lack of proper communication on this issue is making the situation worse.  I would love to know what are the real motivations behind the change.

I am glad you're here actually Walker as I was in the process of replying to your thread in TT when the server went for a burton. Luckily I realised something was up so copied and pasted my reply and saved it to post when the site comes back up. But I'll do it here now to save me the bother. Hopefully Pundit and the rest of you don't mind.

Soooo... without further ado.

______

Quote from: walkerpYet you were there in seconds to move the thread.

Yes because I happened to have just come online at the time. You can't click your fingers and expect a staff member to appear out of thin air.

QuoteI thought that if the issue was the hobby as a whole the thread would be "allowed" to stay in Open.  There are tons of threads about the game itself in the D20 forum.  What kind of informed opinions about the hobby overall am I going to get over there?  Ones that tend to come from a D20 perspective, which is a valid one but only a part of the overall industry.

I think you're putting the game in question onto a rather high pedestal and attributing a lot of "importance" on it in general to justify its existence in the incorrect forum. It is a bit of a slippery slope and based on the responses it did receive, and discussion of said game in other threads, I saw nothing that I felt justified this level groundbreaking impact your cite as your reason.

QuoteFrom my perspective, this is getting perilously close to censorship. I'm basically not allowed to say certain things in certain places.  This is very much not a clear cut case and I am not doing this to try and buck the rules.

Now hang on. I haven't closed your threads. I've not edited them. I've not blasted them from existence. They continue to exist for anyone to post to. That isn't censorship. That is thread management in line with the forum structure. You are quite welcome to say what you want (within the rules) in the right forum. D20 as a forum may have a lot of threads (alright all of them) in which D20 games are discussed from a position of appreciation but we have at no time ever said you have to be complimentary or supportive of the D20 games discussed in the forum. If you want to post a thread announcing why you do not like D20 games then have at it - but it will still go into the D20 forum.

QuoteI am honestly very curious about speculating how SW Saga will effect the industry and I want to hear the opinions of the kind of people who tend to have a wide overview of the industry and those kinds of people tend to be in Open.

Please see my above comments regarding your attempts to put this gameline in particular on higher level of importance to justify the placement of your thread.

Those kind of people post in D20 (btw - cold hard numbers which ShannonA can provide indicate that the D20 forum is growing leaps and bounds in readership and posting) are equally as well versed in the industry. In fact it is your belief above which leads to the incorrect statements that RPGnet is making a D20 ghetto. It most certainly is not and the increasing traffic in the forum bear this out.

QuoteAlready one of my threads was effectively killed.  Now this one is going to die the same death.  The people in D20 right now want to talk about the meat of the game.  As they should.  It's their exciting new toy.  I want some more outside perspective.

Would that be thread that has had more responses than your second thread (as of when I started drafting this response anyway)? You seem to be working on an assumption that those who post in D20 are not as well versed in the industry as those who don't. You also seem to be of the belief that the D20 forum is some kind of graveyard where tumbleweed rolls and the silence is deafening. Neither being true.

QuoteI know this isn't your fault, that you are just following the policy, but this now seems to be going too far.  SW Saga could very well be the biggest game to hit the overall market since 3.5 and we aren't allowed to talk about it in Open???!!!!!

Sorry but... well no. The game may well be a big release but it is still a D20 game, just like its predecessor was and whilst I don't doubt it will sell by the boat load, given the Star Wars tag on it, that still does not change the nature of the game one tiny little bit. D&D is the one, single, biggest and best selling game on the market bar none. If an when a V4 comes out it will be the next big thing. Guess where threads discussing it will go? Assuming the D20 forum still exists then (which the way things look will be highly probable - sorry).

QuoteI'm feeling very angry and disappointed right now.

I am sorry you feel this way Walker. As I said before - I understand your dislike of the new forum but I would ask that you at least respect RPGnet's managements decision to create the forum.

___

Btw. I am not sure what other threads you were referring to in TT that got a response quicker than yours. From my muddled memory you made your thread in TT at about 2255 (British time I'm afraid since that is where I am) I came online at about 0130 and then my involvement commenced. On a Friday night when a two and half hour turnaround for something which requires consideration (which your request did IMO) isn't too bad.

First, JonA, it's "without further ado." "Adieu" is Frogspeak for "goodbye" - why would you say "without further goodbye"? You're not American, you shouldn't be arseing up sayings like that.

Why does he have to respect rpg.net management's decisions about forum arrangements?

Did he sign an oath of loyalty when he signed up to the forums?

See, respecting mod decisions about what is or is not a rule break, deserving of warning, banning, etc - I can see that. After all, you can question decisions while still respecting them - even if sometimes mods on forums can't tell the difference. It's decisions about people - fair enough, respect 'em.

But decisions about which subforums to have or not? What the fuck?

Quote from: walkerpIt makes me curious as to how tight a rein is going on backstage and what motivates them to all tow the line.

The motivation is a general level of courtesy to those who've seen fit to choose us and trust enough to handle their forum for them.

Quote from: JonAThe motivation is a general level of courtesy to those who've seen fit to choose us and trust enough to handle their forum for them.

You say this on the wrong forum JonA. Here those who distrust you have come to settle....

Regards,
David R

Quote from: JimBobOzFirst, JonA, it's "without further ado." "Adieu" is Frogspeak for "goodbye" - why would you say "without further goodbye"? You're not American, you shouldn't be arseing up sayings like that.

Yeah I know. Its 2am. What can I say. I've edited it now.

QuoteWhy does he have to respect rpg.net management's decisions about forum arrangements?

I was referring to putting your thread in the forum we've specifically set up for such threads. You may not like the split -  that is fine, it was never thought that the split would receive universal approval. But at least respect the structure and format of the board as is or don't post there. Otherwise your threads will get managed and we'll just infuriate you more by doing what we're supposed to be doing.

QuoteDid he sign an oath of loyalty when he signed up to the forums?

He agreed to the terms and conditions which also means working within the rules and guidelines we've chosen to employ on the site. One of those  specifically covers posting in the correct forum.

QuoteSee, respecting mod decisions about what is or is not a rule break, deserving of warning, banning, etc - I can see that. After all, you can question decisions while still respecting them - even if sometimes mods on forums can't tell the difference. It's decisions about people - fair enough, respect 'em.

But decisions about which subforums to have or not? What the fuck?

Again I was referring to posting of threads in the correct forum regardless of your agreement with the existence of said forum. The arguments to the management against the forums were allowed in TT and received senior site management responses.

Quote from: David RYou say this on the wrong forum JonA. Here those who distrust you have come to settle....

Regards,
David R

None of whom ever asked me to help manage the forum on their site. So I really don't give a shit whether anyone here trusts me or not to help run RPGnet. I was responding to someone's post enquiring what motivates us to "tow the line" on the public forums. Simply because that is what is asked of us.

Quote from: JonANone of whom ever asked me to help manage the forum on their site. So I really don't give a shit whether anyone here trusts me or not to help run RPGnet. I was responding to someone's post enquiring what motivates us to "tow the line" on the public forums. Simply because that is what is required of us.

*shrug* Just sayin' that any response you make here is not going to make a difference to some folks. But whatever, you obviously felt the need to come here and respond to Walker.

Regards,
David R

While we're at it, it's "toe the line." Fuckin' worn-out metaphors. Find a fresh one!

And now fuck off and post something in the roleplaying forum, that's what this place is for! :what:

Quote from: JimBobOzWhile we're at it, it's "toe the line." Fuckin' worn-out metaphors. Find a fresh one!

And now fuck off and post something in the roleplaying forum, that's what this place is for! :what:

This IS the roleplaying forum.  :confused:

It's not my fault that the mods here are a few bob short of a quid and don't realsie that a thread bitching about another forum should be in Off-Topic, not in the roleplaying subforum. I assume that after a few days the light of common sense will penetrate through the pipe smoke haze that obscures their moderator's vision, and the thread will be moved to its proper place.

Obviously I mean that JonA should post about roleplaying in the roleplaying subforum.

Quote from: JimBobOzWhile we're at it, it's "toe the line." Fuckin' worn-out metaphors. Find a fresh one!

Pedantic corrections from someone who thinks removing the g from the end of a  verb makes him look cool.

QuoteAnd now fuck off and post something in the roleplaying forum, that's what this place is for! :what:

Nice to see you're still an ignorant twat Jim. This thread seems to be primarily made up of posts berating the split on RPGnet and my posts were pertinent to that. So please. Stop trying to be the hard man of the internet from your little basement. It really is pathetic.

Well, it's back up now, so everyone can piss and moan over there. Oh, hang on...

Quote from: One Horse TownWell, it's back up now, so everyone can piss and moan over there. Oh, hang on...

Honestly, I just wish they would stop bitchin' about it over here...I mean what's the Pundit's forum for...oh wait...this is the Pundit's forum :eek:

Regards,
David R

and could this please be moved to off topic?  really. . . .:rolleyes: