Quote from: blakkieI've seen Fight Club too! :haw:

Oh, yeah.  That's right.  It's been a while since I've seen that.

!i!

Just to correct a conservative liar here, when the bushies moved into the white house they did claim that there was massive damage, filthy graffiti, vandalism, theft, "porn bombs", etc.

The clinton staff denied all this, and the busines simply said "Well, we're not going to discuss it as it's time to move on, but the damages and theft amounted to about 200,000$"

Ok, to they tell yet another lie about clinton as they're literally moving into the white house, having lied and stolen their way into it, then when challenged to back it up they say it's time to "move on and change the tone", which the right spent 8 years setting, BTW.

Well, people demanded prtoof, like reciepts from the clean up costs, etc. The bushies just ignored the demands. Then Bob Barr, a notorious conservative who filed the first impeachment motion against Clinton the day after he was sworn into office, demanded proof of the "200,000$ in damages" as part of a way of filing charges against Clinton, or at least some of his staff. (They just couldn't give up their hopes of seeing Clinton, or at least as many people close to him as possible, in jail.)

Well, the GAO said there were no records of any clean up fees. The GSA said they had zerpoknowledge of any such expenses and finally the bushies admitted they did not have one single documented, catalogued case of any sort of vandalism, damage, "porn bomb", etc.

They more or less said "It happened, but we didn't keep the proof, we want to "move on"."

So, in other words, it didn't happen.


Now then, just because it was a lie the bush bunch made up doesn't mean that we should discard the idea of the porn bomb entirely, tho.  I think they could be very useful weapons in the culture war for free thinkers and progressives to use against religious fanatics, neocons and other fascists.

Say, has anyone used the idea of a "culture war" in a RPG setting? A culture war setting rpg could be a great place to introduce porn bombs, porn grenades and the dreaded porn thrower.

Quote from: Dominus NoxSo, in other words, it didn't happen.

Was that really the final word?  See: here, here, here.  (Some of these also detail what they meant by "porn bombs".)

Quote from: John MorrowWas that really the final word?  See: here, here, here.  (Some of these also detail what they meant by "porn bombs".)

Well, when I saw that your first two links were to the washington post, a publication dedicated to boosting republicans and bashing democrats I instantly disconnected from them without viewing them.

The third was taking forever to connect so I got tired of wating and closed the window.

The bottom line is that if there'd been 200$ worth or damage that could be pinned on clinton staff, bob barr, dan burton and the rest of the clinton haters would have had every member of clinton's staff up on charges, hearings, etc. They didn't because they couldn't prove any of it.

Washington post articles are about as credible as the average article on the fox nutz channel.

Gay porn bombs might be an effective solution to those silly religious bigots in Northern Ireland. But then again ...Northern Ireland might have had enough of bomb blasts of any sort.

Quote from: Dominus NoxWell, when I saw that your first two links were to the washington post, a publication dedicated to boosting republicans and bashing democrats...

Does the Washington Post know about this?

Quote from: Dominus NoxWell, when I saw that your first two links were to the washington post, a publication dedicated to boosting republicans and bashing democrats I instantly disconnected from them without viewing them.

Are you sue you aren't confusing the Washington Post and the Washington Times?  Then again, an attention to details doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

Quote from: Dominus NoxThe third was taking forever to connect so I got tired of wating and closed the window.

The third is a later GAO report than the one you seem to be relying on.

Quote from: Dominus NoxThe bottom line is that if there'd been 200$ worth or damage that could be pinned on clinton staff, bob barr, dan burton and the rest of the clinton haters would have had every member of clinton's staff up on charges, hearings, etc. They didn't because they couldn't prove any of it.

They would have needed the cooperation of the Bush administration and they, apparently, were trying to put it behind them.  As it is, there is evidence that they wasted as much money investigating the vandalism as their was vandalism, which would be a perfectly valid critique for you to make.  Then again, I think you (and probably Franken) are missing the whole point of the "porn bomb" charges.

Quote from: Dominus NoxWashington post articles are about as credible as the average article on the fox nutz channel.

So what publications do you think are reliable?  The New York Times?  The Guardian?

Quote from: Dominus NoxPYEW! There's that smell of asskisser breath again. Gack! Also I pick up a trace of conservative stench mixed in.

Nox: What does any of that have to do with what Koltar actually posted? Are you not getting that this is what makes you so unliked here? Respond to what he said, or shut the fuck up.

Koltar: Don't fucking bait him.

Considering the history the two of you have, I'd really wish you'd put each other  on ignore.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Dominus NoxWell, when I saw that your first two links were to the washington post, a publication dedicated to boosting republicans and bashing democrats I instantly disconnected from them without viewing them.

And that, Nox, is a good example of why you're so ignorant.

If you'd actually read them rather than covering your eyes because you think they might damage your precious beliefs, you would have found that in fact the links Morrow posted seem to do far more to back up your argument (well, Franken's argument, really, you're just his parrot) than to contradict it.

The articles conclude that the total potential damages from the exiting Clinton admin went to about $19K, and wasn't more than was typical when you had a change of party administration transition (ie. about as much "damage" as was done when the Bush Sr. admin left and Clinton arrived); while the cost of the "investigation" (which was basically an excuse for mudslinging on the part of Barr and the Bush whitehouse) cost about $200K, far more than the damages could have amounted to.

To me it seems pretty obvious: fratboy Dubya and company was projecting their own way of thinking, the sort of thing that they would do, to the Clinton administration. The story about taking the "w" keys off some keyboards was probably true, which the Bush admin made a big deal of reporting, but then they went hog-wild with their imagination from that point, making up shit that they think could have happened, detailing normal wear-and-tear from 8 years of government as "vandalism", etc etc., goaded on by the conservative media hungry to tar the Clinton administration one last time.  And like usual with Bush fabrications, at each telling the story got bigger, and more difficult to back down from.  So instead they just did what became the standard operating procedure for the rest of their administration: keep telling the lie, refusing to show anything to back it up, till its accepted as "common knowledge".  Its all part of that idea this administration has that they have the power to "Create their own reality", something they openly stated in regards to Iraq, the notion that if they're forceful enough about wanting something to be true, it will become true (like, say "victory in Iraq").  It hasn't really worked out for them...

But shit, if you want to see real destruction, wait till you have (if you do) a Bush white house transition to a Democratic presidency... the fuckers who thought up and fabricated all those stories of vandalism? I'm betting they were saving a few doozies compared to what they claimed.

RPGPundit

P.S. : Oh yeah, since this thread is just a thinly-veiled political thread masked as a supposed Roleplaying subject, I'm moving it to off topic.  Next time you want to talk about Al Franken's wonderfulness, Nox, don't make up an RPG excuse. It only muddies the waters.

Quote from: Dominus NoxWell, when I saw that your first two links were to the washington post, a publication dedicated to boosting republicans and bashing democrats I instantly disconnected from them without viewing them.

And that right there disqualifies you from even making a comment about politics ever again.

Anyone afraid to read what the Other Side is saying is a partisan hack at best and not worth discussing anything with. Not to metion the fact that the Post is about as Left as you can get. Its the Washington Times you're supposed to immediately dismiss - didn't you get the memo?

Again, democraticunderground and Kos await you - though I suspect you visit them already.

Quote from: RPGPunditIf you'd actually read them rather than covering your eyes because you think they might damage your precious beliefs, you would have found that in fact the links Morrow posted seem to do far more to back up your argument (well, Franken's argument, really, you're just his parrot) than to contradict it.

Well that's true (I was curious if he'd actually read the links), but it's also true that there was vandalism and the articles detailed what was meant by "porn bombs", with is what the title of the thread is all about.  It meant (A) putting pornographic messages on the voicemail of phones and (B) putting pornographic images dispersed throughout the paper in photocopiers and printers so they'd pop up at random.  

While the "W" keys (had they left them all in a drawer so the keyboards weren't ruined) and particularly swapped phone lines could be counted as legitimate pranks rather than vandalism, I think the "porn bombs" were a pretty nasty attempt at harassment and in most private sector environments, such actions could be actionable as sexual harassment and so forth.  And that's the whole message of the "porn bomb" charge to social conservatives -- that the Clinton had people that would bring porn into work (or already had it there).

The GAO report does describe legitimate acts of vandalism (e.g., cut phone lines) and the bottom line is that there was vandalism (so the Left is wrong claiming there wasn't any) but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as reported in the Right-leaning press (so the Right is wrong claiming how bad it was).  As is often true in cases like this, the truth is somewhere between the partisans.

Quote from: RPGPunditBut shit, if you want to see real destruction, wait till you have (if you do) a Bush white house transition to a Democratic presidency... the fuckers who thought up and fabricated all those stories of vandalism? I'm betting they were saving a few doozies compared to what they claimed.

You don't really know that and it would be stupid as they did.  But let me add my two-cents as someone who used to work for the government.

All the money that they need to spend to fix things that get broken, whether it's vandalism or normal wear-and-tear and whether it's a $2 phone cord or a $2,000 presidential seal, is taxpayer money.  And, frankly, government workers are far too casual about wasting it and voters are far too casual about excusing it.  I think anyone who purposely destroys or steals government property should be nailed for it's bigger than a pen or a few sheets of paper.  I don't care if it's a coaster from Air Force One or a large presidential seal from the White House, nor do I care if they are Democrat or Republican.  They should be nailed for it because they are taking money out of the taxpayers pocket when they do that and it's about time they were all a little more aware of that.  And if you think they are entitled to steal from the government, then I want the right to take home souvenirs and office supplies and to vandalize government property when I go to government buildings because, heck, I'm paying for it.

Quote from: RPGPunditAnd that, Nox, is a good example of why you're so ignorant.

And this post is a good example of what a pompous asshole you are.

Oh, since you don't think it's right for me to discount a newssource because of it's proven history of bias then I must assume you would never discount a news source because you considered it biased.

So go to this news source and educate your ignorant ass

That's not a news source, Nox. Your inability to tell the difference between what is and what isn't a "news source" is yet another piece filled in on the puzzle of what makes you such an utter fuckwit.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThat's not a news source, Nox. Your inability to tell the difference between what is and what isn't a "news source" is yet another piece filled in on the puzzle of what makes you such an utter fuckwit.

RPGPundit

You decide I'm wrong for ignoring a source that I consider biased, you then ignore a source you consider biased. That's why you're such a fucking hypocrite.

Also I'b getting alittle sick of your namecalling, and am about one most post away from fucking going off on you, just so you'll know.

Quote from: Dominus NoxYou decide I'm wrong for ignoring a source that I consider biased, you then ignore a source you consider biased. That's why you're such a fucking hypocrite.

Yes, except one is a well-respected news-source, regardless of its biases that conforms to certain minimum standards of journalistic professionalism, whereas the other is a politicized propaganda website made by one Glen Reinsford, who has fuck all as far as legitimate qualifications and lives up to no standards of journalistic integrity. You're not comparing Apples and Oranges here, you're comparing Sausage with Velocity here. They're not even in the same category; there's no point of comparison.

QuoteAlso I'b getting alittle sick of your namecalling, and am about one most post away from fucking going off on you, just so you'll know.

Right, because until now you've been the very paragon of restraint.

RPGPundit