Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, Garry, there is a problem with that. Live and let live has brought us to this point where they only took advantage.

The Flying Mouse has wise counsel. It seems unjust to mistreat Tony just for the misdeeds of a few crap-eating forgie half-wits.

And yet, I'm still unwilling to accept the roast duck with mago salsa.

I guess we'll see what the future holds!

But what exactly are they doing that ruins your gaming? To be frank I like having as wide a variety of games to choose just as much as sometimes I like listening to reggae and sometimes jazz. How are these people ruining your fun?

You do play games for fun likesay right?

It's not so much the intrusion of Forge types into someone's game. I don't think that's even an issue unless you happen to share a game store and/or gaming night with disparate types. The primary annoyance the anti-Forgers have is the intrusions onto their forums and into their conversations.

I've never done a lot of reading at RPG.net, but from some accounts you can't sneeze without two people telling you about GNS.

Quote from: James McMurrayI've never done a lot of reading at RPG.net, but from some accounts you can't sneeze without two people telling you about GNS.

Whilst I'm more of a lurker on the RPG stuff this is a myth and I'm seeing a lot mor theory masturbating here because of the lower membership. There's divisions being created in the hobby that are only there for the .5% that are at either end and it just looks stupid especially since the vast majority of roleplayers don't give a crap about what goes on with the net because they're not the basement dwelling troglodytes that some like to picture them they're just peeps getting on with their lives and using the net to check film times, buy stuff of off Amazon and look at porn.

I just got myself sucked in didn't I?

Quote from: TonyLBHonestly?  I don't think that sort of plan works real well in a world where, y'know, misunderstandings happen.

[...]

But in reality, the moment there is some slight misunderstanding (the classic case being "a soldier sees a snake in the grass, about to bite him, and shoots it") what happens is that everyone escalates from the misunderstanding, and both sides cut into each other with the unquestioning ferocity of people convinced that they bear no responsibility for what is happening.[...]

This idea that conflicts only occur because of misunderstandings is a very nice idea, very comforting to people who dislike conflict.

Unfortunately it's wrong.

Usually conflicts happen because two or more people or groups have different ideas of how things should be done. If the other guy's ideas seem to be winning out at the moment, then you get pissed off and arc up, attack! attack! attack! Sometimes conflicts are inevitable. Sometimes the only way to resolve the conflict is to fight it out.

Is the guy right this time? I dunno. Insults themselves won't do much.

"Dear Ron Edwards, you are a cock. Love, JimBobOz."
"Dear JimBobOz, you're right! I'll withdraw the GNS essay immediately! Love, Uncle Ronny."

Probably not.

But insults and general hostility can have the positive benefit of driving away the conflicting people from forums, etc. If someone comes to therpgsite just to Spread The Word, he's (it's always a "he" who comes to spread a word, women spend a lot of time in society being shut up, so the missionary spirit is suppressed in them) - he's going to get a hard time.

Part of the way a community - online or otherwise - establishes itself is by excluding people. Rpg.net excludes people who break one of the ten rules, the Forge excludes people who question Uncle Ronny, therpgsite excludes people who use too many long words, a small town excludes criminals, a religious community excludes non-believers, etc. The community defines "us" by saying "we are not them", "them" being the ones excluded. So insults, etc, from a poster mean that the guy can take part in the exclusion.  He gets to be a leader in the community.

Whether this is useful or good, I don't know. But it's the way things happen. For my part, while I am happy to exclude those I dislike, I'm more interested in promoting what I do like. So I devote words and thought to Why Game Groups Fuck Up, and so on. That usually excludes by implication, but it comes to the same thing. Uncle Ronny would take one look at the front page of that and walk away. And that's good.

The idea that all conflict is caused by misunderstanding leads to the idea that if only everyone keeps talking, eventually everyone will understand each-other and get along famously. It's simply not true. Often we understand someone perfectly well, and that's exactly why we can't stand them. Their ideas are simply offensive or stupid to us.

TonyLB cops the shit for the Forgers because he's constantly defending and apologising for them. "No, wait, I don't think that means what you think it means."

Who said that all conflict was caused by misunderstanding?

Quote from: JimBobOzThis idea that conflicts only occur because of misunderstandings is a very nice idea, very comforting to people who dislike conflict.

You've totally misunderstood what I was saying.

I'm not claiming "If everyone just understood each other there would never be any problems."  That's clearly not true.

What I'm saying is that conflicts due to misunderstanding do happen.  And that, therefore, saying "A conflict occurred, I know I didn't choose to start it and therefore the other guy must have chosen to start it and I'm justified in beating him down because he's an unjustified aggressor" is a very shakey position.

Does that make the point more clear to you?

Quote from: Garry GI just got myself sucked in didn't I?

Yeah, enjoy the suck

JimBob has got his BNG - Bitter Non-Gamer, me, I hate those Bitter Gamers - BG :mad:

They are the kind of folks from both sides :rolleyes: of the so-called war, who most probably game, but can only spew out bile on online forums. They are not really interested in discussion, just to piss in everyone's soup esp the other side.

Their posting style is hostile, their tone offensive and generally they hang about waiting for misunderstandings - the kind Tony mentioned -to occur so they can start shit up.

They are great for board promotion and for drawing in onlookers, but they will never contribute anything constructive to online discussions. Fuckin' Bitter Gamers..

Regards,
David R