Quote from: Lurkndog;1122662Bullshit, Ghost in the Shell was a cracking good cyberpunk movie with Weta Workshop best-in-class design work and effects. And the changes they made to the storyline were an improvement over the manga, which is great, but tends to meander a bit in the later parts of the first volume. 2017 GITS tightens the storyline up considerably, and actually gives the story some closure instead of just ending.

I am, frankly, stunned that you or anyone could muster such an opinion on the live-action GitS. It took me 3 separate attempts (continuing from where I left off each of the latter 2 times) to finish that bland, boring, uninspired film in the hopes there would be a kernel of something positive to remark on. Visually bland, boring and uninspired as well, they managed to nail the impressive feat of sapping every last drop of atmosphere and design appeal from the city, characters and vehicles as compared to the anime. The city in particular looked like a big, noisy pile of vomit. The action scenes were somehow even more boring than the expository scenes. Scarlett Johansson was an awful casting choice, not because of her appearance but because of her terribly wooden acting skills (you could argue that this might be a feature for playing the Major, except you can't really, because Scarlett was actually wooden at acting wooden and every facial expression and line of dialogue out of her comes across as cheap).

In any case, I liked Joker quite a bit; more than I thought I would. Joaquin's acting really made it for me. There were a few decisions in the storytelling/pacing that I thought were mis-steps and I didn't really understand the reason for their presences, but it's possible with additional context / longer run time or possibly just a different edit, those could be resolved to my satisfaction.

All I can tell you is that I enjoyed the 2017 Ghost in the Shell way more than I thought I was going to, given the word of mouth on the movie. Maybe that was the magic of low expectations, I don't know. You watch what you want to watch.

Quote from: Lurkndog;1122810All I can tell you is that I enjoyed the 2017 Ghost in the Shell way more than I thought I was going to, given the word of mouth on the movie. Maybe that was the magic of low expectations, I don't know. You watch what you want to watch.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I'm more curious on how you arrived at it than dissecting the legitimacy of your enjoyment (as that is a non-issue). I was attempting to present my own reasoning. I do understand the magic of low expectations. That is mostly why I enjoyed Escape Plan for instance.

I apologize, I did not intend to come off as combative.

Wish I could find it again, but I recall reading a really excellent analysis of the 1995 and 2017 versions of Ghost in the Shell, which compared the construction of the shots in specific scenes the two movies had in common. I remember it focused on the scene with the Major in the window, the fight in the water, and falling backwards off the building. The analysis really highlighted how the 1995 versions were much more tightly integrated into the tone, pacing, and themes of the film. That doesn't mean the 2017 versions of the scenes were unattractive, because in many ways the individual components were superior. But the original was a much more powerful film.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1122862Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I'm more curious on how you arrived at it than dissecting the legitimacy of your enjoyment (as that is a non-issue). I was attempting to present my own reasoning. I do understand the magic of low expectations. That is mostly why I enjoyed Escape Plan for instance.

I apologize, I did not intend to come off as combative.

Apology happily accepted. I didn't mean to come off as overly combative either.

One thing I really liked in the 2017 movie was their version of Batou. He seemed to really come to life. Some of the other supporting roles were also good, though I didn't like their version of Aramaki.

Quote from: Lurkndog;1123440Apology happily accepted. I didn't mean to come off as overly combative either.

One thing I really liked in the 2017 movie was their version of Batou. He seemed to really come to life. Some of the other supporting roles were also good, though I didn't like their version of Aramaki.

I agree, I liked their rendition of Batou. He seemed well cast given the medium. I think I would have liked him even more if the rest of the movie had not soured itself on me. Aramaki was... an interesting decision. Not one I would have made, but interesting.

I finally saw the Joker movie last night, and I was mostly unimpressed. It was skillfully put together and Joaquin Phoenix did a great job, but it came across as very flat. For my money, there are a lot of man-goes-psycho movies that are more powerful -- like Taxi Driver, Fight Club, and Falling Down.

It was okay, but I feel like it was hugely overrated. I suspect the comic tie-in drove a lot of interest in the film, but it was just name-checking the comic characters.

Quote from: jhkim;1124917I finally saw the Joker movie last night, and I was mostly unimpressed. It was skillfully put together and Joaquin Phoenix did a great job, but it came across as very flat. For my money, there are a lot of man-goes-psycho movies that are more powerful -- like Taxi Driver, Fight Club, and Falling Down.

It was okay, but I feel like it was hugely overrated. I suspect the comic tie-in drove a lot of interest in the film, but it was just name-checking the comic characters.

What a surprise.

Quote from: Gagarth;1124924What a surprise.

I would agree. It's too flat and simplistic. I wouldn't like this story if it was the tale of an oppressed black trans lady so I don't like this story as a mentally disabled white man.

That really is the problem. Its a show called The Joker. But isnt about the comic book character at all and could have been named pretty much anything else. It really reads like they just slapped Joker on some random killer plot.

And retheming Falling Down as the Joker would have been a far more entertaining path.