Another Kremlin critic is shot dead.

That's rather blatant.  If Russians start accepting this sort of thing, they are nearly begging for a return to Stalinism.  KGB alumni pretty much run the country as it is.

And another one:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/03/russia.journalist/index.html

This one not so obviously by the government but I bet no one will be tried, just like the murders of several other journalists.

I wonder if this will backfire - rather than silencing opposition, it might stir them up more.

from article:
"The Glastnost Defense Foundation, which provides legal support to the media in Russia, estimates that more than 220 journalists have been killed in Russia since 1991. Of those deaths, only six have been "properly investigated," according to the foundation."

Quote from: Nicephorus;243889I wonder if this will backfire - rather than silencing opposition, it might stir them up more.

Probably not. Seems likely that this type of stuff is fairly effective in discouraging others from speaking out.

I haven't read this one, but I read a few of the previous stories when they were fresh. It seems to me that a singular defining factor is that the victims did not take any reasonable precations against becoming targets of the administration.

Am I blaming the victims? No.  Not precisely.  But if you wish to bait the bear, it is best not to stand in its mouth when you do.

If, for example, I were to make myself an enemy of the state... obviously being in America it'd have to be more than simply criticizing the administration to more violent opposition, I'd have to take pains to first hide my identity, then, even succeeding there, remove myself from the public eye.. that is go into hiding, strike from the shadows.

One? I can forgive the first victim for failing to realize the threat from teh innocuous action of 'telling it as it is'... but once the precedent was there, you ahve to think like a criminal, a revolutionary if you want to be anything other than a martyr.  Its virtually inexcusable at this point to read about people being killed while going about their lives after they've made themselves targets.

Now: Watch as I make an ass of myself and find the latest victim was in hiding after all...  (note: living publicly in, say, London is not the same as being in Hiding....)

That's a weird response from you Spike.  I think it's just really not that easy to hide.  It's a long tradition in Russia (and other dictatorships) to send out assassins to hunt your enemies abroad.  Putin is continuing this practice.  If they can get you in London, how easy must it be for them to get you in Russia, especially if some neighbour finks you out.

I think these people publicly criticising the Putin adminstration are incredibly brave.  Foolhard as well, perhaps, but still brave.

I think the Russia just sees all the hate that the US gets and is totally jealous.

Quote from: Spike;243926I haven't read this one, but I read a few of the previous stories when they were fresh. It seems to me that a singular defining factor is that the victims did not take any reasonable precations against becoming targets of the administration.

Am I blaming the victims? No.  Not precisely.  But if you wish to bait the bear, it is best not to stand in its mouth when you do.

If, for example, I were to make myself an enemy of the state... obviously being in America it'd have to be more than simply criticizing the administration to more violent opposition, I'd have to take pains to first hide my identity, then, even succeeding there, remove myself from the public eye.. that is go into hiding, strike from the shadows.

One? I can forgive the first victim for failing to realize the threat from teh innocuous action of 'telling it as it is'... but once the precedent was there, you ahve to think like a criminal, a revolutionary if you want to be anything other than a martyr.  Its virtually inexcusable at this point to read about people being killed while going about their lives after they've made themselves targets.

Now: Watch as I make an ass of myself and find the latest victim was in hiding after all...  (note: living publicly in, say, London is not the same as being in Hiding....)

The courage theses folks show is not only speaking out but not hiding out as well. If you are in hiding, you simply are as effective.

In another development, Russia has officially lowered the civilian body count in South Ossetia to a hundred casualties or so. Not exactly the genocide they claimed when the tanks rolled in, isn't it?

Quote from: walkerp;243929That's a weird response from you Spike.  I think it's just really not that easy to hide.  It's a long tradition in Russia (and other dictatorships) to send out assassins to hunt your enemies abroad.  Putin is continuing this practice.  If they can get you in London, how easy must it be for them to get you in Russia, especially if some neighbour finks you out.

I think these people publicly criticising the Putin adminstration are incredibly brave.  Foolhard as well, perhaps, but still brave.

A weird response from me? Or a weird response in general?

I point out that living publicly abroad isn't hiding out.   Other than that, I'm not going to despute with you, or others, that martyrs are brave people. I just disagree that martyrdom is the most effective or pleasant route to social change.

If your neighbor can fink you out, you aren't really hiding out either. Now, if you are trying to hide your identity and your neighbor goes 'that sounds a lot like Walkerp's writing'... then yeah. But then I don't advocate trying to face down the Bear while using the flimsy sheild of an assumed name...

Right now? The assassins don't even have to look for their victims. They know where they live, work and what they do during the day. Makes it pretty damn easy to ambush them, and ambushes are excellent ways to kill people.

I simply advocate, if you insist on doing something like this, not trying to live a normal life at the same time, not making it easy for them to silence you.

It would be odd to fight oppression by becoming more oppressed. /shrug

Quote from: CavScout;244277It would be odd to fight oppression by becoming more oppressed. /shrug

And you have an odd definition of oppressed then.

Quote from: Spike;244405And you have an odd definition of oppressed then.

Why do you say that?

Is a criminal (that has not been captured, note) more oppressed, or less, than the law abiding citizen?

By going underground, by willingly giving up a stable lifestyle that makes it stupidly easy to kill you, you gain freedom as well as life. You sacrifice comfort, not freedom.

I don't buy into the analogy. Someone fighting oppressors is not equal to a criminal. Sorry.

MLK was effective because he was out in front, not in hiding giving radio chats. Was he in more danger? Certainly and that's why he is a hero.